Storm This is going to be really picky, I guess, but when chairmen or hearing examiners or whoever refers to "audience," you know, we're not really "audience." We're constituents, we're taxpayers, we're your boss, kind of, even though you don't get paid. [laughs]. And it would be nice if we could use the word, "assembly," anyway. I know that's kind of picky, but it just always grates on me when you say audience. You're not entertaining us, that's for sure [all laugh].

Green Some people are entertained, I can guarantee you that. I'll try to be more sensitive.

George I don't feel like you're my boss. Your government is in Snohomish County, not in the City of Sultan. I'll listen courteously to what you have to say and just take it for that.

George [unintelligible].

Kistenmacher --

George [interrupting]

Kistenmacher [dropping the argument] That's fine

George But as far as the taxes, you know. You live in a house outside [unintelligible] federal, county, state taxes and everyone living in the city pays federal, county and state taxes, probably an equal amount, and on top of that, city taxes. So I don't feel like I have a say in what goes on in Hoboken. It's not my [unintelligible].

Storm You know, if I buy stuff in Sultan, does that mean I'm paying Sultan taxes?

Green I don't want to get into an argument here now.

Storm Well, it's a ridiculous premise.

George No more than Everett, Seattle or anyplace else you buy something.

Kirkman I didn't realize that Sultan was a sovereign nation. I mean, this is a recurring theme. I didn't grow up in this country. I came to this country that's supposed to be this free country that's "together," it's the United States, and there's this whole attitude in the city that somehow because people do not pay direct to this city, they're not participants within the nation. This is not a sovereign nation, guys. This is the United States. It is one country. We pay taxes everywhere we go, and those taxes come back to the city in one way or another. This city thrives on --

Female Where'd you grow up?

Kirkman I grew in Switzerland. A very democratic country, by the way.

Green Okay. Back to taxes.

Kirkman The taxes come back to the city, and especially as the city thrives off of grants and all sort of handouts. You k now, the people around us who live here, is your address Sultan, by the way?

Storm Sure is. And we may be annexed.

Kirkman Mr. Fallgatter? Is your address Sultan?

M. Fallgatter It is.

Kirkman I mean, I don't understand this whole attitude. I've heard this for the last couple of years and I have never understood this sort of rejection of the people who are around you who are part of this community. They are a part of this community. And they have the right to speak up. T hey have the right to participate in this process. If I wanted to go over to Eastern Washington and participate in Wenatchee, I have the right to. I have the right to ask for documents from over there, I have the right to investigate things over there. It is part of the freedom of movement and all that. And I've had experiences with other countries. I grew up in Switzerland, I also lived in France and in England. You don't have the freedom of movement as you do here. Embrace it. I don't understand why the people who don't embrace their environment, they don't embrace their surroundings. Everything has to be just about the buck, it has no reason. At the end of the day it's the vision that is lacking here. That's all I have to say.

Botting I would like to see us all work together. We're all [unintelligible] of Sultan. I think we've heard some really good comments tonight and I like to hear comments from the public because I think it helps us to make a better decision.

Green And I agree with you, Janie. I hope we can live in peace and get along together here. And I appreciate your comments from the assemblage.

Fallgatter Mr. Chairman, I have another comment. I wanted to take the high road and not discuss the taxing issue that we've been listening to. But I would suggest that any of our planning commissioners feel that we should only listen to those who reside within the city limits of Sultan, that they should take the short course on planning that's being held in Monroe this Thursday. It's a great opportunity to learn about what "sphere of influence" means. The City of Sultan has chosen to have a sphere of influence that is greater than its city limits. The decision made here on the planning commission or on the city council affect more than the residents who simply live inside the city limits. And also, I would really love to state for the record that it is a bogus idea that we only listen to those who live within the city limits because when there are people who do not live within the city limits, but want to expand the urban growth area, they get listened to, and if there are people who do not live in this community that want to come here and develop -- and I will use the name, "Barclays North," they are listened to. And they do not live in the city. They do not eat in restaurants in this city on a regular basis. They do not go to the sports of the high schools. They do not participate, they do not go to the churches in the city, but there are people who do those things that do not live within the city limits. And I would like to commend Commissioner Botting of her idea of all working together. And I think we can do that if we can all broaden our vision of what this city is. Thank you.

George I would like to follow up and say that there's been some selective deafness here. What I said is I would listen and I would listen courteously. What I took issue was, was saying who was my boss. That's what I took issue with. I'll listen to anybody who has a comment.

George [changes to consent agenda] I have a couple comments on that.

Green I'll entertain a motion for discussion purposes.

Kirkman I'll make the motion to accept the Consent Agenda.

Green Second?

Green It's been moved and seconded that we accept the Consent agenda. Is there discussion now? Ray?

George Uh, it's on the first page. (a revision unrelated to this subject). And on the next-to-the-last page under Planing Commissioner comments, let's discuss the "Who's the boss" comment, I don't really have any problem with that. I said that, but it was specifically in response to a comment made by Loretta Storm [see transcription above]. And without her comment it can't really be taken in context.

Murphy I'm sorry. What page is this?

George It's on the second-to-last-page, Planning Commissioner comments. So I would like to either see under my comment that it is in direct response to her comments, saying she is the boss [again, see the above transcription], or her comment up above with the rest of her comments, the verbatim of what she said as on [unintelligible].

Murphy Okay. I'll add both of those.

Green Any other directions?

Fallgatter And then I also think that to keep things in context, that Kay George comment that needs to be referenced, that she was speaking [unintelligible] Sultan taxpayer, that makes the comment by Ray Kistenmacher and Mark Fallgatter make sense.

Murphy Could you say that again? About Kay George?

Fallgatter Yeah. She introduced herself as the only taxpayer from Sultan in the audience, or something like that, I don't know it verbatim. But that gives context to the next comments.

Kirkman I amend my motion to accept the amendments to the March 16, 2004 meeting.

Dalmasso I'll second it.

Green It's been moved and seconded that the minutes for March 16^th be accepted with the corrections. [unanimously accepted]

George I'd like for the record Mr. Kistenmacher's comments to be entered in the minutes verbatim.

Murphy Did you read the memo from the mayor? Per the memo that the mayor gave us, [we] can't do that.

George Okay. Then I would like to add a comment. I take his comment to mean anyone, any commissioner who makes comments that I made, to be threatened at his own peril if he makes such comments.

Kistenmacher That was not a threat.

George And that Mr. Kistenmacher confirmed that is correct.

Kistenmacher No, I did not.