• STORM'S OBJECTION TO COMMISSIONER DALMASSO'S PARTICIPATION IN THE HEARING

• TESTIMONY

• Mark Fallgatter
• Loretta Storm
• Kay George
• Ray Kistenmacher
• Mark Fallgatter (follow-up)

• PUBLIC CLOSING COMMENTS

• COMMISSIONER CLOSING COMMENTS

• PERTINENT CODES
  

Storm I had a question for one of the commissioners.

Dalmasso Okay. Regarding this hearing?

Storm Yeah.

Green Okay.

Storm I would like to know what Bart's communication has been with, with anyone on this particular subject.

Dalmasso Talked to Rick a little bit about it. And talked to John -- not John, but Diamonedes, a long time ago about it.

Storm Who?

Dalmasso Diamonedes.

Storm The Hoot Owl guy?

Dalmasso What?.

Storm The Hoot Owl guy?

Dalmasso Yeah.

Storm Well, I understand there were two gentlemen at the last planning commission…

Dalmasso I thanked them for coming.

Storm I'm sorry?

Dalmasso I thanked them for coming to the meeting.

Storm Okay. But how did they know about the meeting?

Dalmasso I told them about it.

Storm Okay. And how did you know about the -- I mean, I, I don't understand why they were here, how they just showed up.

Dalmasso Well, I didn't ask them that. You know, I just told them that there was a meeting that they should be interested in coming to…that impacted them.

Storm But, see, you've had conversation with them?

Dalmasso Yes.

Storm Okay. Did you want to disclose the conversations?

Dalmasso I just -- I already did.

Storm I'm sorry?

Dalmasso I just did. I told them that there was a meeting about the change in the highway [unintelligible] property out there. And that if they were present, they'd hear about it and [unintelligible] know. And… [trails off].

Storm [pauses] I feel like I'm…digging water here. [a short laugh] and not getting anywhere. I just, it just -- you know, you keep going around. I guess what I'm saying is I believe that you have had ex parte communication with these gentlemen, and therefore you should recuse yourself from this decision and from the hearing.

Dalmasso I don't think telling somebody about meetings is a reason to step down.

Storm Are they friends? And this was just kind of --

Dalmasso I've known them. I know everybody here in the meeting, too. [unintelligible]?

Storm Well, I've made my statement. I object to Bart being part of this meeting [hearing]. But it's in your hands, I guess [referring to Chair Tom Green].

Green I think it has been disclosed now. I don't, I don't see any problem with that.

Fallgatter They aren't clients, are they, Bart?

Dalmasso No. I don't…[unintelligible].

Green [a long pause ensues as Chairman Green finds the sheet from which he read the hearing process/guidelines] Do any of the commissioners have an interest in this property or issue? Do any of you stand to gain or lose any financial benefit as a result of the outcome of this hearing? Can you hear and consider this in a fair and objective manner?

Dalmasso [unintelligible]. I can hear it in a fair and objective manner. I have nothing to gain from it. What was the other one?

Green Uh, let's see, do you have any interest in this property or issue?

Dalmasso No.

Green Do you stand to gain any or lose any financial benefit as a result of the outcome of this meeting?

Dalmasso No. Not unless some time in the future that somebody along the highway lists their property with me for sale, but no, [unintelligible].

Green Can you hear and consider this in a fair and objective manner?

Dalmasso Yes.

Green And then Loretta, you were given the opportunity to object. And…and you did that.

Storm Sure did.

Green So we'll proceed.

[end of exchange] back to top

Cisar If you go the Conditional Use process, that could trigger a traffic analysis under the condition.

Fallgatter So if you felt it was necessary, you could say, okay, when you do this, you can proceed onto the highway and you can only -- you can't cross it?

Cisar Well, we'd make that recommendation to the [unintelligible] city council.

Fallgatter Okay. In C of 4, it says "the commercial character and the intent of the area." Does this change something of what the original intent was? This proposed change?

Cisar No. That's a section that I put down [unintelligible] existing code. And maybe [unintelligible] wrote it down [unintelligible]. The only real change, uh, is probably "A" frontage requirements directly on Highway 2.

Fallgatter And then on Item #5, it would be Section 2, item 5, when you refer to the local, region and state and federal agencies, if they're going to have a say, do they have a say in the permitting process at that time? So that they say someone could not meet it on this sized lot or with this size facilities, they would give you something to you in advance saying, "No, you wouldn't be able to make it there"?

Cisar They'd certainly look at it. We'd give a, based on the size of the lot, [unintelligible]. There would be a lot of permits involved, because of the oils and that.

Fallgatter Because I was thinking that some --

Cisar [unintelligible].

Fallgatter Right. But I was thinking some of the new car washes now, they really don't have much wastewater. They treat a lot of that water right onsite, and it looks like a 40-foot trailer. And so some of that, what you've written, where it takes a lot of acreage. I certainly see what you're saying. But I do have to say that the Smiley's and some of your others, when you want your oil changed and you know that's the place you're going to go, even though it's difficult to get in and it's difficult to get out, you live with that. Because it's a place of business you want to use. But I don't think we should invite that problem, making it difficult or unsafe. {back to top]

Storm Actually, I spent a couple hours this afternoon making comments based on some of the audio that I heard from the last meeting. And when I got here and actually saw the code changes -- it would have been nice to have had the code ahead of time, for change [I had asked Mr. Cisar for this information two weeks previous.]

Cisar It was upstairs.

Storm Pardon?

Cisar It's always upstairs.

Storm Oh, okay. You bet. I'll just break away from my busy business and run down to city hall to read it. You bet. Nice answer, Rick. Anyway, so I have marked some of this up and some of it may not apply… But I'll read what I think is still appropriate. First of all, I do believe that this is strictly another designer code for particular individual. It's just that simple. As such, it's inappropriate. So today when I was looking at the code and I actually started to read the UC and HOD codes, I was flabbergasted that there was even any discussion that you'd be thinking, even considering putting this sort of business in the UC zone. It's clearly not warranted. It goes against the entire intent of this code. It clearly states the purpose of the UC zone and its goal is not to allow business -- excuse me, that was one of the things I had to throw out [from my pre-written comments before the meeting] -- Its goal is to create and sustain pedestrian-oriented activities. The code clearly states the purpose allowable in the Highway-oriented development zone are "counterproductive" in maintaining the purpose of the UC zone. They're totally incompatible. There's two different things. There's two different purposes foreseen by each of those codes. The fact that NAPA Auto Parts -- and this goes to some audio I listened to at the last meeting -- the fact that NAPA Auto Parts or whoever couldn't be allowed to build or operate in the UC zone today were they to apply, is totally irrelevant. That's what grandfather clauses are for: To prevent previously-approved yet currently-undesirable uses in a zone, designed to improve the city, not to detract from it. And I think everyone will agree we are trying to improve the attractiveness and bankability of Sultan, not make it look like a…well, like Monroe. If you allow new car lubes, car washes and other automobile repair and maintenance businesses into this zone, then why not, as Commissioner Green said at the last meeting, allow approval of all HOD zone uses? What's the harm in that? Perhaps Commissioner Green on the reasons why he might like to have a sewer lift station or meat packing/freezer plant, a transmission line substation, or animal shelter or mobile home park next to his family's home. Those are all uses allowed in the HOD zone which are denied in the UC zone, and there's good reasons for that. And to take this line of logic one step further, why should Sultan have nay codes at all? Why don't we just sell it piecemeal to any needy new business wishes to more here. Which seems to be the present case scenario. Don't get me wrong: Sultan Desperately needs the infusion of new tax blood from business, but not at the cost of selling off its future.

Cisar No.

Storm Okay. I'd love to have that. Is there any way I can have that by email, or -- ? [extended pause, waiting for a response] I'll hold my breath.

Storm Pardon?

Cisar I can run you a copy of it.

Storm That would be great. I'd love to see that, because it just -- Like Josie, I'm having a real hard time with that one. Um…Oh, and earlier you made the statement that this would apply, and you'd make a recommendation to the council, that only highway 2 properties-- highway 2-facing properties would be adopted, but it's still the UC code, zone. We're not doing a conditional use thing here, we're…you're looking at changes that are going to affect the entire code and the entire city. And that's just not a clean way of addressing this issue. In my mind.

Thank you. {back to top]

Me being the only tax-paying citizen in Sultan that's here in the audience, I would like to commend you to do whatever you can to help our city attract commerce. I've heard a lot of people say that, oh, Smiley's is dangerous or certain places are dangerous, but if you notice how many people frequent those businesses… [trails off]. And I wasn't at the last council meeting, but I understand that Chief Walser may have asked for yet another special levy on we taxpayers. And I tell ya, I don't think that we would be looking at that and other fees that the taxpayers have to burden if, for instance, Cadman came here instead of up to Gold Bar, yet we're still plagued with the traffic. So I really appreciate you looking out for the well-being of the people who live here instead of the desires of people who don't. Thank you. {back to top]

Excuse my ire. I pay taxes to the state and to the county. A lot of my taxes come back here in the way of all the grants that this city gets. I'm tired of hearing about taxpayers and people who live inside the city versus those who don't. My voice is every bit as important, especially when you talk about something like Cadman, because that would've been up on the Sultan Basin Road, and that's where I live. {back to top]

I pay taxes, too. This is what I call [unintelligible]. I don't live in the city. But when you treat people who don't live in the city like this, how do you expect them to want to be annexed into the city? Comments like that, it doesn't go very well with me. [unintelligible] live in the city. I might like to. But if this is how you're treated before you're a city member, who'd want to be here? I pay my taxes, same as everybody who sits here, and I have a right to have a say. Thank you. {back to top]

Storm And this is going to be really picky, I guess, Tom, but it's one of my pet peeves. When a chairman or hearing examiners or whoever, refers to "audience," you know, we're not really audience, we're constituents, we're taxpayers, we're your boss, kind of, even though you don't get paid. And it would be nice if we could use the word, "assembly," anyway. I know that's kind of picky, but it just always grates on me when they say "audience." You're not entertaining us, that's for sure. [laughter] {back to top]

R. George "I don't feel like you're my boss. Your government is in Snohomish County, not in the City of Sultan. I'll listen courteously to what you have to say, but just take it for that.

Kistenmacher: Well, you're -- fine. That's fine.

George And as far as the taxes, you're living outside of the city and pay federal, county, state taxes and everyone living in the city pays federal and state taxes, and [unintelligible] people now, and on top of that, city taxes. So I don't feel like I have a say in what goes on in Hoboken, [unintelligible]. So that's all I have to say on that.

Storm You know, if I, if I, if I…buy stuff in Sultan, does that mean I'm paying Sultan taxes? It's a ridiculous premise.

R. George No more than Everett, Seattle or anyplace else you buy something.

Kirkman I didn't realize that Sultan was a sovereign nation. [laughter] I mean, this is a recurring theme. I didn't grow up in this county. I came to this country that's supposed to be this free country that is together, it's the United States, and there's this whole attitude in this city that somehow, because people do not pay direct taxes to the city, they're not participants within the nation. This is not a sovereign nation, guys. This is the United States. It is one country. We pay taxes everywhere we go, and those taxes come back to the city in one way or another. This city thrives on -- [interrupted so audiotape could be changed]. The taxes come back to the city. And especially this city that thrives off of grant and all sorts of hand-outs. The people around us who live here, is your address Sultan, by the way?

Storm Sure is. And we may be annexed.

Kirkman Mr. Fallgatter, is your address Sultan?

M. Fallgatter It is.

Kirkman I mean, I don't understand this whole attitude. I've heard this for the last couple of years and I've never understood this sort of rejection of the people who are around you who are part of this community. They are part of this community. And they have the right to speak up. They have the right to participate in this process. If I wanted to go over to Eastern Washington and participate in Wenatchee, I have the right to. I have the right to ask for documents from over there, I have the right to investigate things over there. It is part of freedom of movement and all that. And I've had experiences with other countries. I grew up in Switzerland. I also lived in France and in England. You don't have the freedom of movement as you do here. Embrace it. I don't understand why the people who don't embrace their environment, they don't embrace their surroundings; everything has to be just about the buck. It's about -- it has no vision. At the end of the day it's the vision that is lacking. That's all I have to say.

Botting I would like to see us all work together. We're all [unintelligible] in Sultan. And I think we had some really good comments tonight and I like to hear comments from the public because I think it helps us to make a better decision.

Green And I agree with you, Janie. I hope we can live in peace and get along together here, and appreciate your comments from the assemblage.

Fallgatter I wanted to take the high road and not discuss the taxing issue of who to listen to, but I suppose I will. I would suggest that any of our planning commissioners who feel that we should only listen to those that reside within the city limits of Sultan, that they should take the Short Course on Planning that's being held in Monroe this Thursday. It's a great opportunity to learn what sphere of influence means. The City of Sultan has chosen to have a sphere of influence than is greater than its city limits. The decisions made here on the Planning Commission and the City Council, affect more than the residents who simply live inside the city limits. And also, I would really like to state for the record that it is a bogus idea that we only listen to those who live within the city limits, because when there are people who do not live within the city limits that want to expand the urban growth area, they get listened to. And if there are people who do not live in this community but want to come here and develop -- and I will use the name, "Barclays North," they are listened to. And they do not live in this city. They do not eat in the restaurants in this city on a regular basis, they do not go to the sports at the high schools, they do not participate, they do not go to the churches in this city, but there are people who do those who do not live within the city limits. And I would like to commend Commissioner Botting on her idea of all working together, and I think we can do that if we can all broaden our vision of what this city is. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

R. George I would like to follow up to say that there's selective deafness here. What I said is I will listen and I will listen courteously, but I took issue with (sic) was saying who was my boss. That's what I took issue with. I'll listen to anybody who has comments. {back to top]