TRANSCRIPTION: PUBLIC COMMENTS RE WILD SKY

SULTAN COUNCIL MEETING, March 23, 2005

[Note: I had more problems than usual hearing certain words/phrases, perhaps because the layout of the room was a bit different (Boyd and Blair, especially, were further away than normal). Therefore, if anyone listening to the audio while reading this transcription can discern what was said in the locations marked “unintelligible” in this transcription, I would appreciate if you would forward those corrections to me at grit@direcway.com. Thank you.]

OPENING PUBLIC COMMENTS:

Ed Hussman I’m the one that brought you the resolution. Of course, I’d like to see Sultan oppose with (sic) the Wild Sky Wilderness area. I, I’m saddened by the fact that there’s so much misinformation out there. This bill has been around now for four years, for four tries that, uh – Just to get to a couple of these numbers that are thrown around when they say it’s, we only have 10% wilderness in the state of Washington, that’s 10% of the entire state’s area. That’s not 10% of the parks or national forest. As a matter of fact, our national forest here in Washington State is approximately 45% already designated wilderness. It doesn’t make any economic sense. The National Forest Monitoring Studies that are public documents have shown that people who visit wilderness areas throughout the United States spend less money than the general use areas. And, as a matter of fact, the monitoring studies also point out that wilderness areas are only visited by less than 10% of the people that go into the national forest in the first place. To set aside over 40% of our national forests for less than 10% of the visitors, doesn’t make sense to me. I know somebody mentioned Alaska…[short laugh], Alaska’s 8 ½ times bigger than Washington. It’s 365 million acres, Washington is about 43 million acres in total. I have those figures. But I wanted to get down to what, what’s really local here. Here in Snohomish County, our portion of the national forest – it’s right up the road here – is currently, today, 43% designated wilderness. The national forest that we’re all supposed to get access to and use, right here in Snohomish County, is already 43% designated wilderness. That’s Henry M. Jackson on the one side now, Alpine Lakes on the other. And I don’t know if you’ve been to a wilderness area nor not, but you need a permit to spend the night. And wilderness areas have to be maintained wilderness in nature. So the governing, or the, the agency that’s in charge of wilderness, has to keep it wilderness. So you start throwing three million people in there and guess what? They’re not going to get to go because that would have too big of an impact on the wilderness area, as wilderness. If you throw Wild Sky into the mix right here in Snohomish County, that would make our national forest, our portion that we use, 63… or 60…somewhere around 65% designated wilderness. That just doesn’t make sense. It’s not going to bring any of our economic stuff. The Snohomish County Council sent in a letter last year which I’ll give you a copy, [in] which they pointed some of these things out. It…it’s, uh…let’s see – Some of the lies that are going on in terms of, of what they’re [sounds like, “billing”], if you go to the website and it says they’re going to do all these fancy things, John Phipps, who’s head of the Forest Service, still, currently, wrote a letter in ’02 to Jennifer Dunn on several points having to do with wilderness, or Wild Sky wilderness. And he said the national forest is not going to build new trails up [there]. They don’t have the money. They’re $8 billion in debt back then and they haven’t built any new trails in 25 years, and they don’t intend to build anymore, and besides, trails cost $150,000 a mile. To build. They don’t have the money. They’re going to take out roughly twenty-six thous---26 miles of roads that we paid to make, and it’s gonna – we’re gonna pay another $18 million to go up there and rip ‘em out. That just doesn’t make sense. I’m sorry. My time is up. If there are any other questions later on, I’ll stay to answer that. And I should be here…. Here’s a letter of the Snohomish Council…a letter from, uh, Pombo to, uh, Rep. Pombo to Larsen, [unintelligible] some of the things he thinks, and here’s the letter from John Phipps to Jennifer Dunn.

Sue Shawger Concerning the Wild Sky Wilderness Resolution. Both Snohomish and Monroe have passed this resolution. This resolution is supported not only by sportsmen’s clubs, but also people with disabilities. It is supported by businesses that supply sportsmen. People would come here who enjoy kayaking, camping, fishing, hiking and rafting. Therefore, they would also bring even more business to Sultan. We had someone here the other evening who asked if Sultan would consider releasing water from Culmback Dam for world class kayaking in the Sultan River gorge, which he thought would draw people from Oregon to Canada. The Wild Sky Wilderness would bring in even more people. The headwaters of Spada Lake are in this area. There would be protection of a healthy watershed for salmon and steelhead, as well for our own water source. Less than 10% of Washington State is designated wilderness. The Wild Sky designation seems to have gathered support from both sides of the aisle in the “other” Washington [D.C.]. Let Sultan also support this resolution, and declare FOR the Wild Sky Wilderness area.

Jean Roberts I am also speaking for the Wild Sky Wilderness Bill. There are 30 local businesses that support it in the Sky Valley. It seems to make economic sense to have an area like this, since, um, we are having a new tourism center and people will be coming from all over, and to have this area right next door, just will bring in a fair amount of money. I, I’d like to, to list the organizations that support this: The Backcountry Horsemen of Washington, Trout Unlimited, Washington Wildlife Federation, American Whitewater, and the Washington Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities, which Sue just mentioned. Uh, it was mentioned last week by Ed Hussman that the people with disabilities would not be able to enjoy this. And there is going to be one road that is going to be left and that is going to be near to Index. And the fact that its National Forest area right now means that it can be logged and it can be mined. And we know that gravel is a substance that is, um, not in ready supply these days. And I just imiagine gravel being found there and a mining operation set up which would endanger the headwaters of the Spada Lake, which are in that area, and would endanger our water supply. And it’s, it’s been 20 years since, uh, a wilderness area was established in Washington State. And so I would really like you to consider this, maybe taking it off the action agenda and consider it a little bit more. I don’t know if you have done a lot of research on this or not, but I think it’s a very important issue. Thank you.

Margorie Tyler I would just like to add my vote to the Wild Sky Wilderness area. Um, we just need more, more wilderness area. As was say, only 10% -- less than 10% of Washington State is, uh, wilderness. And we do need more, uh, really, this is a little bit more accessible than some of the other wilderness areas which are way, way up in the mountains and you can’t get to. Some of the restaurants and other tourist agencies had kind of a tough winter this, uh, this winter because of a lack of snow. And, um, I think that they would probably – I, I know that they are in favor of this wilderness area to bring tourists to off-times of the year. Thank you.

Kay George And I support Mr. Hussman’s opposition to the Wild Sky. I know that we need to because of the [unintelligible] of the area, and for that sole reason only. And I know that it will, um, not allow us to reach some of the areas that, that we would like to. And I have, uh, several relatives that are handicapped, and with this bill, they would be blocked out of the area permanently. And that’s not something that at least the people that are handicapped that I know of will support. Thank you.

Alfred Hollenbeck I’ve been a resident of Sultan since 1960. My kids and I would fish in the Sultan River. We’d hike in the Basin. I’m really concerned about, uh, the runoff from gravel when they dig gravel in that basin that will literally kill all living things in the river. I think that you folks should consider that sport fishing is a profitable business for the local area. People come up from all over the United States to this area for fishing. Or used to, until it was fished out. But I, I’m definitely against mining gravel in the basin. Thank you for your time.

Josie Fallgatter I would just like to weigh in on the Wild Sky issue as well. I think with the money that the city has invested in the Tourist Information Center, as well as the Chamber of Commerce, that you would do the city a disservice to oppose the Wild Sky Wilderness area. I believe that, uh, the tourist dollars…from the traffic going through on Highway 2 could really benefit the city. And I would like to see the city pursuing…the kind of economic development that’s sustainable, um…tourism is a sustainable economic revenue here. I think we already have industries in this city, like Werner Paddles, who benefit from the environment that we have here. I just ask you not to oppose Wild Sky. Thank you.

Bart Dalmasso I want to also address the Wild Sky issue. About two weeks ago I had a friend whose mom was dying of cancer over in the Ukraine. She came to me just to spend some time. And we took a drive up through Jacks Pass, which is part of the proposed wilderness area. If that becomes Wild Sky, that, that is going to be taken away from people like her, like me and like the family. And this family, just before [unintelligible] tonight, I got a call. Her mom is in the United States and does have a chance for survival. Whereas, if she stayed in [the] Ukraine, she would not have. In reference to the 10% of land being federal land, private ownership of, of property in the state of Washington is less than 15%. Private citizens, such as yourself and myself, own less than 15% of the land. Approximately 10% of the land is owned by corporations. The rest is owned by government entities. This property is already owned by the government. It’s a national forest. It doesn’t need to be changed. People need to be able to enjoy it. I couldn’t hike in there if my life depended on it. And I enjoyed the drive. It’s a very beautiful drive and I’d encourage you all to take a trip up there and enjoy the scenery. Thank you.

COUNCILMEMBER OPENING COMMENTS (SPECIFICALLY RELATED TO WILD SKY)

Derek Boyd On the Wild Sky issue…I, I, I don’t, I don’t know what I’m missing, but I fail to see where there’s an economic value in something where you increase the, uh, you increase the amount of people that would be visiting and it is an economic boon. I’m having trouble, I’m having trouble digesting that. So that’s my…feeling on Wild Sky.

Kristina Blair Thank you all for coming and speaking out tonight. I’m going to hold my comments till we get to our agenda item for Wild Sky. I do have a comment about that and different ideas about that, and feedback that I’ve gotten from other [unintelligible] citizens as well as people who come and visit this area…uh, so I’ll hold [unintelligible].

Jim Flower Yes, thank you all for coming tonight and sharing your feelings. And I’m also going to echo Councilwoman Blair’s comments and hold off until we have our discussion as an action item on this. It seems it’s a very emotional issue for many, me included, having [unintelligible] for the last 25 years [unintelligible] before that discussion.

John Seehuus I’m going to sound like a broken record and echo your comments as well, but thank everybody for coming.

Dusty Boucher I’ll hold comments till we get to the action item.

Rob Criswell Well, I should, but I won’t. About 1956 or ’57, I went to Northern California and seen what happens when they take away public access. And that’s basically what they’re doing ‘cause they can’t afford to build the trails like they say they’re gonna. I lived in the area where the largest Redwood in the world was. And the company that owned that property had a road. You could drive through it. You could [unintelligible] to it. The minute the government stepped in and took that, they blocked off all the roads. You now have to hike eight miles to go see that. How many people can hike eight miles through the woods, down in this draw where these trees are at? Not very many. And the people that are pushing this – I was up on the, in Index [during the Wild Sky Rally] – the people that are pushing for this are people that are in really good health – not like myself – but they’re pushing for it for hiking and stuff and that’s fine. ‘Cause they can hike up mountains and, and down in the riverbeds and stuff and it’s fine. But they’re not handicap-accessible. They do not want people in there. That’s why they…get these shut down. And that’s basically what they’re doing. And there’s more access right now than there will be when they plan to put this through. So how are you gonna gain people if there’s less access to it? I don’t understand that.

Bruce Champeaux Nothing for me [unintelligible].

MAYOR TOLSON COMMENTS

I’ve encouraged the council to speak this evening especially on this issue. Um, to share my own opinion, since I don’t have a vote on this, uh, is one, trying to gain further information. I have visited the local website and spent quite a bit of time reading through the various commentaries that are on that. Um…I would like to encourage the council to, if they would, consider having our own hearing regarding this. I think there needs to be some clarification because as you stated, Councilman Boyd, there’s…I think there’s some…either misunderstanding or miscommunication regarding this issue across the board. I personally have a view on this, but I, I would like to see us before we make a proclamation of any sort, uh…hear from the people in general, or those that we represent as a community… But I have encouraged council to share if they communicated with or they have contact and they feel confident with that, that’s their call. However, I think there’s a lot of information that’s out there, and, uh, I don’t know if….this issue has to be run with this evening. And, uh…that’s, that’s my two cents on the matter. So.

COUNCIL DISCUSSION AND VOTE

Tolson We’ve move on then to Resolution 05-06, the Wild Sky…initiative.

Boucher I’ll make the motion for passage of Resolution 05-06, Wild Sky opposition

Flower I’ll second that.

Tolson Is there any discussion this evening?

Champeaux Uh, yeah. Real quickly. [unintelligible] I have my opinion on the, on the matter. I’ve talked to a couple people. I’m not opposed to it. Uh, but I do think that spending a little bit more time and getting a little bit more information would not hurt, it may be helpful. I don’t…I haven’t seen a lot of information on it, so I would not be opposed to spending a little bit more time looking into this matter. That’s my two cents. Other, otherwise, I mean, I do strongly…I’m [unintelligible] issue, but, uh, I don’t know that it’ll hurt to spend a couple more weeks to, to get some more information and to look at it.

Tolson Kristina, you -- ?

Blair I, I, I definitely have comments about that. And really, I attended the rally, uh, two years ago (See Note #1 below). There were quite a few, uh, a large percentage of the people that were there in opposition to Wild Sky were from our community. Obviously, I was not in office at that time, uh, and I am…sensitive to that since I was not elected into this position. I am not opposed to either to having more public input and research time on this, um, to see what… I, I represent the people here. And I want to make sure that I don’t just impose my opinion on this. That I do a good job of representing the community. But I do have comments about…the community the way it is. One of the people that I spoke to at that rally, I thought made an excellent point. He and his wife were retired. They were both handicapped. And he had done quite a bit of research on the subject, far more than, than I have even [unintelligible] very, very well. And he was upset that him and his wife traveled around in their RV. And he said, “You know, We love to enjoy the wilderness. And if this passes, there are places that my wife and I absolutely will not be able to access and go.” And I see where there has been comment from different places that, that, uh, certain handicapped organizations actually support it and that they would be accessed by wheelchair. But, boy, I don’t know – there aren’t many wheelchairs that can actually get out on a dirt road and a [trails off], unless it’s a very well-maintained [trails off]. Speaking of trails, I used to hike all the time at the Mt. Baker international forest up there, and during my 12 years in that area and enjoying that area, the National Forest Service had to shut down several trails because they could no longer afford to maintain them. And in fact, they restricted all access to them by doing that, and so you could not access those areas at all, really, on foot [unintelligible]. They also charged you to come up and park, to be able to hike, just in order to gain funds to keep maintaining the trails that they had. And I, I haven’t done a lot of research on it, but I, I don’t see where there would be a lot of trails being made there and parking areas for people to be able to access those. And there was mentioned – a speaker mentioned tonight about the Chamber [or commerce] and their involvement. And, you know, we are currently, we have a lot of fishermen, we have a lot of kayakers, we have a lot of people that go up to use the areas as they are as recreational facilities. I would like to see the Chamber advertise that we actually have those available, for those people who don’t know. There’s organizations that have…come together to help maintain those areas to keep them clean, to keep them well-run so that they aren’t impacted and the, the environment is not – I, I [unintelligible],uh, conservation as much as possible, but limiting access to what we do have available, when there’s already so much we can access anyway, unless you are, unless you can’t hike 15 miles up a steep grade to hike into a remote lake to go fishing. So I wouldn’t want, not like to see, uh…access limited. And again, I think that we ought to take the resources that we have now and, um, benefit from them. Advertise them. Bring in those tourists that want to kayak more, that want to go up and hike in [unintelligible] and the free parking that we have, the camping that we have available, um, [unintelligible] offroad that I’m not so hot about, but I think they do a good job of maintaining their, their [unintelligible] out there for the small area that they actually utilize. But again, I’m really open to public comment, because it’s not just me. I represent the people of this community.

Seehuus Well, I’ve heard a lot over the last few years about this. And, actually, it’s surprising, I’ve been on the council for a little over a year and this is the thing I’ve heard the most about. Most people don’t speak up. But, uh, I just fail to see the economic boom by limiting access. You’re going to have the number of people going up there and it’s supposed to be an economic boom, but to me, I don’t get it. What’s going to be done up there that’s not being done now? I, I, I tend to look at it as a, as a massive land grab. Shut it down and limit, limiting access. I just don’t think it’s a good idea at all and I just cannot see the economic benefits from limiting access. You’re going to be cutting the number of people going up there, not increasing. So where’s the economic benefit? That’s all I have to say.

Flower Mr. Mayor, I’d like to chime in here. I feel very passionate about this issue, in that it was that area that initially brought me to this state in 1979. The very first place I had was a little, uh, riverside cabin in, uh, the city of Index for $160 a month. And I [unintelligible] fell in love with that area. I’ve hiked and climbed throughout up and down Jack’s Pass. I can show you some old gold mines up there. I can show you old town sites. I know the way to Monte Cristo over [unintelligible] Pass at Silver Creek. And I feel very passionate about Wild Sky. It’s a beautiful place. But don’t shut me out of it. And don’t tell me I can’t bring my aging mother-in-law up there who loves to just sit with a fishing pole. She can’t walk. But you can help her out of the car, and you can sit her down with a fishing pole, and you have made her day. And they say, “Well, the road’s going to be open to Galena.” Well, big deal. That road right now goes all the way to Skykomish, and there’s side forest service roads that through some spectacular waterfalls, and it’s inconceivable to shut out the people in our society that are the disabled, the children, the ones that are not he-man hikers. I can’t say enough about this. This, this is a free country, and I’d like to see it stay free. And I don’t live in an echo chamber, and I don’t believe that we’re going to get any more benefit from having public hearings on this. I’ve been hearing this for three and a half, four years. I’m not going to change my mind on how I feel about this. I’ve been hearing about this almost every place I go for the longest time. And it’s time that we come together as a voice for the City of Sultan and say, “Don’t shut us out.”

Boyd I’d just like to reiterate some of the points that I have looked at over the course of a couple of years, and I just couldn’t understand them. One was the economic boom that John was talking about. I hate paying for stuff twice. I hate, I hate, I just dislike the fact that we’re going to spend tax dollars to go in there and rip out roads that’ll be paid for by our tax dollars. [unintelligible] if I understand the wilderness, they’re going to leave it as-is. I don’t know [unintelligible] that. I would like the option [unintelligible]. Nobody can answer those things for me, at least, [unintelligible] in any way to change my mind. So I agree if the rest of the [unintelligible], stand up and pass this.

Boucher [unintelligible] couple of council members who wanted a bit more time. And I would agree with Councilman Flower. I don’t think more time is going to change anyone’s mind here. And I don’t think more time is going to give us any diversity of opinion that we haven’t heard already. This issue has been on the front burner for some time. If you’re not aware of it, you haven’t been paying attention. Uh, and I think that’s more [unintelligible] the extent of perhaps tonight’s vote. I agree with what’s been said before, economically. They try to sell this as an economic plus. I just, it doesn’t make any economic sense to me; we limit access, therefore, economically that will improve by – if you use that argument, you’re limiting motorized access to the river, i.e., no powerboats. Therefore we’re going to get more fisherman. That’s not going to work. Uh, let’s get rid of the motor ski lift on the mountain, therefore you’re going to get more skiers. That’s not going to work. And [unintelligible] county decides to eliminate all motorized yachts, therefore, tourism is going to improve. That makes no sense. And so I don’t see any economic benefit, per se. Perhaps there’s some individualized businesses that might get some residual benefit, but I don’t think overall there’s any economic benefit. In fact, I think it would be the opposite of that. It is already protected land. What they used to do is to give it the most stringent protection possible; i.e., we trust the government more to take care of that property and keep people out than we trust ourselves. And anytime we allow that, I think that’s a bad move. Uh….I would like to see this voted on tonight. I would like to see it be unanimous. I don’t want to twist anybody’s arm if you’re not comfortable. That’s your decision. I think from the feedback we’ve gotten so far, we have the votes to pass it, but I would really like to see it [unintelligible]. Granted, we are a tiny little community. I don’t think we’re going to make a terrible difference, one way or the other, but perhaps there’s some symbolic benefit. Perhaps we can get other cities to deal with this issue. I know Monroe, a couple of years ago passed in favor, but my understanding is that there are certain councilmembers who would like to bring that back to the table themselves, and the vote would, in fact, be different. We have a county council who voiced strong opinion on this, similar to what we have before us tonight. The people that I have contact with, by and large, have been against Wild Sky. Granted, I don’t have contact with 4,000-odd people, but I have contact with a great many, including some business owners who think this is an asinine idea and makes no economic sense whatsoever. So my position is I hope to vote on it tonight. I hope that it’s unanimous.

Criswell I agree with Dusty. I’d like to see [unintelligible]. I was with Dusty at the same rally that Kristina was at. It was the one I referred to up in Index. And like, like I said before, this…when they limit your access, that cannot, in any way, shape or form, bring more people into an area if they shut ‘em out. Right now I’ve been up – I’ve hunted in that area, I haven’t recently, but in the past, there’s roads going everywhere. Anybody can use, drive on those roads, and if, if, if you can’t enjoy it…the area, I don’t see any point in even having that area. And by taking all the roads out, you’re not going to be able to enjoy that area. So I, I’m, I’m with Dusty on this. I think the council should, uh, be unanimous on this. And I, I, like I said, I experienced this first time in California, believe it or not. [unintelligible] come in there and shut it down and you can’t even see that big tree anymore. Can’t see it anymore. [Unintelligible].

Tolson Any further comments, Mr. Champeaux? I appreciate…I appreciate all your input on this. That’s, that’s the one thing that I did want to see, is that rather than this go through and have a vote and just cast it aside, uh, leave it in, in, in, in, in our trail here, I, I wanted to have you articulate your position and communicate that. And that I appreciate. So what is your pleasure regarding -- ?

Blair Well, I just want to clarify one thing –

Tolson Sure.

Blair It seemed that you have the impression that I’m kind of waffling in some way. And as I said, my representation was at the rally where a large percentage of those people were Sultan residents. And that’s where I would take my…impression from. And I, I do have an opinion about this.

Tolson Okay.

Boyd Call for the question.

Tolson Question is called for. We do have a motion and a second. So with that, we will go ahead and do a roll call vote on this. Councilman Boyd?

Boyd Aye.

Tolson Councilman Blair?

Blair Aye.

Tolson Councilman Flower?

Flower Aye.

Tolson Councilman Seehuus?

Seehuus Aye.

Tolson Councilman Boucher?

Boucher Aye.

Tolson Councilman Criswell?

Criswell Aye.

Tolson Councilman Champeaux?

Champeaux Aye.

[smattering of applause from the assembly]

PUBLIC COMMENTS ON AGENDA ITEMS ONLY

Tolson Public comments? At this point in time we would like to invite public comment on agenda items [unintelligible] this evening. Please come to the podium, identify yourself and comment.

Jean Roberts This is a comment….uh, regarding the vote on Wild Sky. I watched Mayor Tolson as he opened the present [the gift of original centennial logo framed artwork, presented to the City by the Centennial Committee] and saw the framed logo celebrating our centennial. And I saw Chief John Sultan, Sultan John. And I thought of the Native People’s decisions. They always considered many generations ahead of them. And I think that it is better to err on saving land rather than take a chance on losing it maybe [to] logging or mining or some other cause. Thank you.

Loretta Storm And just a couple of quick comments. Everyone, it seemed, all the council members, expressed confusion over how you can restrict something, um, and gain economic development or economic development, uh, economic, uh, uh…increased economic money from that – by increased visitors. Um, actually, you may wish to talk to Jeff Sax for the answer to that. Um, in the July 2004 in Wild Sky’s hearing in the House subcommittee, he was the one who actually raised the issue of the increased visitors that would effect, negatively effect Route 2, Highway 2. Um…and that’s, that was his take on that. Um…I forget how many he mentioned. It was something like 2 million visitors, new visitors would be coming, would be using Highway 2. Um…and Councilmember Blair, I’d actually like to ask her, you mentioned that you were at the rally and that there were an awful lot of…I forget how you phrased it, but you thought there were a lot of Sultan people opposing Wild Sky. But my question is, how many people did you talk to that were there – I think was like 400 people or something – how many people that were there from Sultan, um, were pro-Wild Sky? Just a thought. And as far as – My take on why, uh, visitors would be increased and not decreased if you, if you limited the, uh, the amount [of access] is…[pauses] I think a lot of people looking for pristine areas, as development encroaches on our society and on our cities, it’s very difficult to find a place that is peaceful and quiet and truly natural. And when you…you know, there’s a lot of places you can go with art---you know, what do you call them? ATVs and cars and other, you know, engine-based devices and vehicles, but that’s not natural. That’s not quiet. That’s not peaceful. That’s not the way God intended. And I agree with Jean that we should, um, err on the side of, uh, conservation and setting some of this aside before it’s gone. Thank you.

Tolson Thank you. Further public comments?

Ed Hussman I would like to thank the council for the, for the vote that you took. The, uh, the Bills are on the fast-track. [unintelligible] bogged down, and Washington will make the decision and outside of any input from us. Congress will do what they do best, and that’s…take their votes. This thing all started, it didn’t start here in Sultan or in Index or Skykomish, it started in Seattle. That’s where this idea of preserving this area came from. Not from anybody local. Petitions, 2,000 signatures, were mostly local people here in the valley. Quite, quite a number of them almost, are, uh, Sultan. “Truly natural” is a relative term. That whole area, as you well know, was logged in the 20s. And it was real funny when, uh…the, uh…one of the, uh – what was his name? the school teacher – testified it was truly pristine and, um, ancient, the forests that are up there. And aside, his exact testimony, aside from a stump or two, this thing was back to natural. And that stump was from the railroad logging in the 20s. And what he was saying was is that even though they logged the area, it’s back to being pristine again, which is in contrast to the environment’s side. I kind of questioned that at the time. But the comment on Jeff Sax was, Jeff – and I was there – Jeff was responding to the fact Murray is claiming – Senator Murray is claiming that three-some-million people are going to come up to this area or it’s available. And of course, the area’s already [there] for those people and we thought that was kind of bizarre, because they’re gonna put all those people on Highway 2, and we couldn’t get any money, uh, to improve Highway 2, yet they were going to take the $18 million and rip out the roads up there. And that’s, that’s how that whole comment came about. I don’t think Jeff was agreeing that, in fact, it was going to increase the numbers of people. He was just citing that Murray, in her testimony, uh, was saying that it’s going to increase the number of people, so. And, and again, the, the natural forest has studied, and there is the national forest monitor studies that show that fewer people go to wildernesses and they do spend less money. And you can get that from [unintelligible]. Thank you. And thank you again for standing up and, uh….taking, uh, taking the vote. Thanks.

Tolson All right. Further public comment at this time? All right. Councilmember response to public comment? Boyd?

Boyd I’d just like to address Loretta. Loretta, if I thought that there would be too many people up there in the course of the year to go up to someplace that they already can access now, and we would have too many more that called it a wilderness, I would change my vote, so.

Tolson Kristina?

Blair Ms. Roberts, I agree that, uh, mining and logging issues are definitely something [unintelligible] in those areas. I think there may be other ways to address that besides Wild Sky. Because we do already have a lot of land set aside in Washington for wilderness areas that are inaccessible, basically, like I was talking about. Even accessible areas that were managed by the Forest and Parks Departments, they’re shutting down. They don’t have the funding. And they were limiting my access, even on the trails that they’d already built and that we paid to have built, and I don’t see them creating that access up here. In fact, they are taking it away. And, again, I’d like to say our Visitors and Information Center to be encouraged, uh, the resources that we have available to draw more visitors and to use what we have. Thank you.

Tolson Jim?

Flower Oh, just a [unintelligible] comment about – I will also touch on the mining and logging questions for Mrs. Roberts. For over 100, maybe 150 years, that area has been mined and logged repeatedly. There’s a rich history of mining. And in fact, it was the mining and the logging that built most of the population of this valley. At some point we are going to have a display of mining coming up this [unintelligible], explaining [unintelligible] about this. I, myself, have explored quite a few of those mines. It’s fascinating. The reason I’m talking about this, though, is if mining was a real economic thing to do right now, there’s no regulation. It would be happening. But it’s no longer economic. [unintelligible] There is some gold-panning, which I have done myself up Silver Creek, and I know where there’s some sapphire claims up there, and, uh, there’s some interesting quartz crystals. Those are the two [unintelligible]. There is no real economic reason to do major logging or major mining up there at this time. [unintelligible] happening. Because the people who are in that business are a lot more acute at it than I am and they would be definitely be doing it, not waiting around for some future date. The [sounds like, “Pomona” or “trah-mona”] mine, right up here near Spada Lake, is an example of that. If that was a viable mine, it’d be going right now. But it’s not. And so right now you have [unintelligible] there is no regulation, and it doesn’t matter anyway. What you do have is an economic boom by allowing our citizens and people from elsewhere, to go and enjoy it. And I know that, uh, it’s up to us. And I know that you’d like to err on the side of caution. But I also believe in erring on the side of caution of don’t giving up rights that my grandchildren will enjoy. That would be really an error, I believe, in my part to give away rights that they could enjoy. That’s all I’ve got.

Tolson John?

Seehuus Well, I’ve already spoken as to the purported economic boon this is supposed to generate But I have one more issue. Our national forests are for all Americans, not for a select few. And the idea of limiting it to the select few [unintelligible] that are capable do this – I don’t know, just sticks in my craw. That’s all I have to say.

Tolson All right. Dusty?

Boucher I find it rather interesting that a person who has spent a great deal of time railing against the….lack of infrastructure that we have in the area on the one hand, but then on the other hand, support a cause by which she is, herself, seems to believe would increase the use of that very infrastructure. It cannot handle current levels by [unintelligible]. The contradictory, uh, nature of that is truly astounding. And then to conclude it by speaking on behalf of God’s intent and plan…is, uh, presumptuous at best, as well as alarmingly arrogant. Does God plan to not have the lights on in this room? Or the vehicles by which those people will travel home? It’s absurd. It was not a hard decision for me, uh, tonight. I think we made the right decision, and I think the council for making it unanimous. Thank you.

Tolson Rob?

Criswell That was, that was quite well. Actually, I wanted to, I wanted to thank Mr. Hussman for all the work he’s done opposing this. I, I…I’ve been in kind of in [the] outlying areas of that, this whole thing all the way through and…um, this guy has – I don’t know how many countless hours he’s put into opposing this – and I totally agree it’s a, it’s a farce to, to try shut that place down. Like he said, we wouldn’t ever use it when, after they did. It’s, it’s… And as far as attracting more people, it, I, that, that still blows my mind. When you shut something down, you shut it down. There’s no [unintelligible] to anybody. Thank you, Ed.

Tolson Bruce?

Champeaux I really don’t have [unintelligible] comments on this. I just want to put this issue to bed, and let the powers that are going to decide it, decide it.

NOTES:

Note #1 re 2002 Wild Sky Rally in Index: In a June 29, 2003 Everett Herald article, Jennifer Warnick stated: “In a festival that safely quadrupled the town’s population of 157, supporters of the proposed Wild Sky Wilderness gathered at Index’s tiny Doolittle Pioneer Park to pay homage to the great outdoors.” That estimate extrapolates to 471 festival attendees.