UPDATE January 21, 2002
Mineral Comprehensive Plan
Tomorrow, Tuesday, January 22nd is the last day to submit comments on the county's draft EIS for their Mineral Comprehensive Plan. I know many residents who are "just folks" might be intimidated about writing anything in response to this incredibly important document because of their fear of having nothing to say. Well, take heart. All of us feel that way. It's a complex subject. But there's help. Check online at our website for a letter from Monroe Mayor Donetta Walser (Wife of our own Police Chief Walser), who has gratefully and effectively distilled this subject down to an "Everyman's" level. We suggest that residents use her letter as a beginning template. We have also given other suggestions below. Additionally, if someone wishes to get more technical, tere is also a detailed letter which was drafted by John Light from Gold Bar's planning department, signed by Mayor Ken Foster, if you feel more energetic. (We have also requested and hope to post soon, official city comments from Granite Falls and Index, which have not yet been received.)
Keep in mind one simple thing: It's not necessarily HOW you respond that counts, it's that you DO RESPOND. Obviously, the more technical and appropriate the response, the more impact it will have.
Another suggestion: If nothing else, we urge residents to email or mail a letter (it must be postmarked with tomorrow's date) to the following individual, reinforcing the combined response by resolution of the Sky Valley Alliance formed by Steve Higgins. If you have not yet heard, Gold Bar Councilmember and Monroe Monitor reporter Steve Higgins was the force behind this orchestrated multi-city response to the EIS, which included Index, Gold Bar, Sultan, Monroe and Granite Falls, which was, in a nutshell: You cannot evaluate this subject without also evaluating transportation of gravel. The cities' combined resolutions are urging the county to go back to Square One and include this vitally important transportation element.
Send your comments to:
Tom Neimann, Principal Planner
Snohomish County PDS, Mail Stop 604
3000 Rockefeller Avenue
Everett, WA 98201
Or email him by clicking on his name above. (Make certain the subject line says "Response to Draft EIS Mineral Comp Plan" and that the first line in the body of the email states in capital letters: "ATTN: TOM NIEMANN - TIMED RESONSE"
At the last county Mineral Plan Task Force meeting Thursday, January 17th, the question of impacts from transportation of gravel resources -- and the EIS' studied neglect in addressing the issue -- was the primary focus. Great minds think alike.
An Apology to Brady Boucher
Well, I suppose some will think they are dreaming or have died and gone to heaven, but we have actually issued an apology to Mr. Brady Boucher on our website in the form of an editorial comment. (A link is on our front page.) This apology is being given because of a totally inappropriate posting which appeared on my discussion forum, which took me several days to remove. If you are interested in reading this apology, please read it online.
CHAPERONS for SATURDAY NIGHT'S SAFE STOP
This is at least the second call and plea from the city for badly-needed chaperons for this badly-needed social function for Sultan kids. Mayor Rowe's personal plea, which was given during the January 16th council meeting, appears later in this update. It is only three hours -- from 8:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. Contact the police department to volunteer for this worthy effort.
RECORDING OF PUBLIC MEETINGS
This was a "surprise" discussion item which was placed on the 1/16/02 council agenda by Mayor Rowe at the beginning of the meeting. A full word-for-word transcription of the discussion appears below (toward the end of this report).
I would like to say a few words on this subject: Most folks are already aware of our recording and transcription efforts, which we have been doing since May or June of 2000.
We believe that actual transcriptions of what our elected officials say -- backed up by their actions -- speak louder than any campaign promises. Not to put too fine a point on it -- it's difficult to "fog the facts" when a word-for-word transcription is available. This goes directly to the accountability issue we're constantly promoting.
The fact that the city recordings are so poor (or were -- we have requested, but have not yet received, any tapes since the mayor has been mic'd), we believe makes our recording incredibly important.
Until the beginning of December, 2001, the city had not expressed any concerns with our practice of hanging a 3 1/2-ounce microphone from a steel ceiling brace. Since then, however, the city has organized a series of objections to our recording in the guise of issuing "concerns" over this practice, first beginning with faux fears for our safety, next concerns for structural damage to city property, and then a deliberate escalation and orchestration to create a "problem" that required a "solution" by allowing -- and, we believe, encouraging the use of boom boxes as a rationale for restraining our recording.
We wrote a letter addressed to both Mayor Rowe and Attorney Grant Weed on December 28th, requesting their precise objections to the placement of our microphone and our recording practices, as well as written verification of complaints from others, but have not yet received the courtesy of a reply. (That is not surprising. Despite countless communications to Mayor Rowe, we have never, ever received any response, verbal or written.)
During the last council meeting it was announced that city attorney Keithley, Weed and Graafstra has issued an opinion to the city regarding recording of public meetings. We have not yet been given the courtesy of seeing this opinion. It's important for Sultan residents to keep in mind that the city attorney is PAID BY THE TAXPAYERS of the city, not by the mayor, the council members, or the city clerk. We urge that this opinion be made available to Sultan taxpayers.
The solution the city has devised by which our recording efforts can be maintained will probably not be acceptable
The city's solution is placing a speaker (either outside council chambers in the hallway, on a "media" table in the back of the council chamber room, or in both locations) by which we can "pick up" mic'd comments from the mayor and each council member. First, while the quality of a recording performed in this manner might be acceptable, the suggested physical arrangement of this "solution" is definitely not.
Neither my husband, Ray, nor I will subject ourselves to a push-shove match that will inevitably result by being placed in such close proximity with any of the Boucher family members, or most certainly with Kenton Coy. If folks recall Sultan's not-too-ancient history, both Ed "Chico" Boucher and Kenton Coy have caused us great personal harm. And to suggest that we "share" a small table -- upon which will rest large boom boxes and other non-functional paraphernalia -- is not appropriate. At the least, the mayor, city attorney and council members certainly do not expect us to "share" a table with Mr. Coy, a person with whom we have a current lawsuit, in part, over the legal ownership of our "GRIT" name, or with Mr. Boucher, who assisted him in this effort? They cannot be serious.
We ask that residents remember two things, at least: (1) We have received no valid and written explanation from either the city or the city attorney as to why placement of our microphone, our recording, and transcriptions present a problem; and (2) there was never any "problem" until the city made it one, aided by Brady and Chico Boucher.
By the way, during the last meeting we saw an individual taking a frequency reading of our microphone. We would like to remind this person (or others) that it is a federal offense to intentionally cause any RF (Radio frequency) interference.
ON THE SUBJECT OF Open Communication
("What are you afraid of?" a question asked by Jeff Kirkman, a Willow Run resident, during the public comment portion -- see the council meeting segment for the entire transcription)
In a recent discussion with a new council member, a wish was expressed that, "Somehow we all to learn to get along." (This is a hopeful, yet unrealistic, opinion with which I would wholeheartedly agree in spirit.). My response to that new councilmember was: "We can begin by ensuring that open communication is promoted by the city, and that this administration performs its functions in a legal, open and taxpayer-oriented manner."
We have established a new website page on the subject of past communication with the city.
MEETINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SCHEDULED:
There will be a 3-hour council workshop Wednesday, January 30th, approximately 6:00 p.m. to discuss current street, water, sewer, stormwater projects and how they tie into the city's current budget. (This was communicated during the meeting by Laura Koenig.)
Mark Raney announced a public meeting on Monday, January 28th at 7:00 p.m. in Sultan City Hall community center to discuss two sites for the Snohomish County Shooting Range. The county's Draft EIS is proposed two sites for this: One is a site on Sultan Basin (seems to be preferred). Laura Koenig mentioned that this proposal does not address traffic impacts on this proposal.
Hearing for Final Assessment Role for LID 97-1 - Hearing set for February 27th - 7:00 p.m. at Sultan Middle School.
Selected Portions of 1-16-02 Council Meeting and Summaries
Dave Chambers (Representative from Teamsters Local 763 [police] Union): Thank you, your honor. I'm Dave Chambers, business agent for the police department here and we've had some ongoing discussions reference the, uh, possible layoffs of police officers within the city. We've had a number of communications, miscommunications, but the bottom line is that the officers have directed me to present, uh, this proposal to the city council (see website for letter). And the gist of the proposal says that the officers will give up their cost of living until December 31st of next year, uh, will give up any educational incentive pay, and these officers are willing to divert all banked and future holiday pay into time off. The City of Sultan police officers recognize the financial difficulties that the city's in, however feel it's in their best interests to maintain integrity of the police department. Uh, with that in mind, they have directed me to submit this to you for your approval and signature. [By the way, before the meeting, Mr. Chambers communicated to me that the union's position re the SPD's volunteer pay and benefit reductions had been sent to the city on December 23rd, but no reply was ever received.]
Rowe Dave, I have one question. You said it's till the end of next year. You're talking about the end of 2002?
Chambers: 2002, right, right, uh-huh. Uh…and this will basically…keep the current contract in force with the exception of the items listed there. I believe I've provided you a copy of that earlier in the week. So, uh, basically we need to have your signature. You have my signature and that will extend the contract, uh, maintain it in force, with those exceptions. And I once again want to compliment the Sultan Police Department for going to these measures, and thank each and every one of them deserve a big hand. Thank you. [applause]
Rowe I as the mayor and the council do appreciate what these guys have done. We didn't in any way want anybody laid off. We've had one officer who had resigned. Uh, he will be resigning, I think, effective the 28th or 20--28th? 20th. [unintelligible]. But he had given us notice of that a month or six weeks ago, so this, uh -- Anyway. We do appreciate what you guys have done.
PUBLIC COMMENTS
Rowe This is a comment period, not a discussion period. Uh, so please try to limit your time to three minutes, if you would. And with that -- And if you would, fill out one of these little forms, only so we make sure we get your name and address correct, 'cause sometimes our recorder, it's hard to, to, uh, decipher what your name and address is. With that, the first person that has turned one of these in is Martin Kline?
Martin Kline [Mr. Kline's presentation was not transcribed. He was representing Coronary Health Improvement Project, or CHIP, which is a scientifically documented program by lifestyle changes to reverse cardiac, diabetes, osteoporosis, arthritis, obesity and hypertension. Brochures are probably available at city hall.]
Sandra Poulson (Willow Run resident): I would just like to clarify some comments that I made at the December 19th city council meeting regarding a couple of police incidents. My comments at that time were only meant to express concern and gain feedback. In no way -- let me make this very clear -- in no way were my comments meant to criticize the police department, as was stated by our city's newest newspaper -- for lack of a better term -- the Sky Valley Weekly, in their debut issue on January 4th. I commend the Sultan Police Department, and will only criticize those that interfere with their ability to continue their high level of service and protection due to budget and job cuts. I'm happy to show up here tonight and find out that things hopefully are resolved in that aspect. Another comment I would like to make is, when I first drove into Sultan and was thinking about buying out here? The first thing that I noticed driving down the street was a police officer car sitting in front of the middle school, which I knew my son would be attending. I think it's very crucial that that police officer is in that school. It gave me peace of mind. It was one of the reasons that I decided to buy out here. It not only gives our children protection that they deserve, the same as we deserve that protection, they deserve it also. But not only that, it gives them a working relationship with the police department. It turns it into a partnership instead of the kids against the cop. I think it's important. And I would just finally like to say to Chief Walser and all the Sultan police personnel, thank you very much for all of your hard work and sacrifice.
[applause]
Brady Boucher: In the last council meeting many may have noticed, uh, a small taste of what could be a problem in the Sultan city council, unchecked in the far, as far as the use of recording equipment, uh, monitoring equipment, taping, whatever you want to call it. I did some research over the last couple of weeks and I'd like to share that research with the city council just for basically FYI. I called some cities and asked them their policies regarding citizens setting up equipment, such as this, that I'm staring through to see the mayor [Brady is referring to a 1/2-inch wide wood dowel which extends the height of GRIT's microphone stand to a point where accurate recording can take place] in or--in order to record a council meeting. None of the cities that I talked to had ever experienced this situation, since all of the cities I talked to, with the exception of Duvall, have their own recording system that they supply to the citizens of their town at the citizens' request, which is an audio copy of the action to (sic) city council. I'll name a couple of these cities directly, because they were a little more specific on their way of handling the situation. I talked, spoke with the city clerk in the city of Lynnwood. I spoke with the city clerk in the city of Lake Stevens, Mountlake Terrace, and Snohomish. All of these cities said handling the situation would be best -- they did not disallow recording. And I'm not here telling the council that they should ever consider disallowing recording of any kind by a citizen. But they would not allow their recording equipment to, (A) have contact with city property, (B) be a disruption, or (C) be a -- I guess you'd call it "barricade"? -- Uh, intrusion of city council process. Basically, in layman's terms they all said that the recording equipment had to be kept on person. I realize that this is a subject city council has been taking up, and is going to have to resolve sooner or later. These cities are successful cities. They're not cities that are hitting the papers every day with failures. And they are a range of cities in size. Sultan might want to look at their policies of keeping their recording equipment on person, and take that into effect, into account, excuse me, when they decide on the decision of the situation. Thank you.
Al Robinson (Mr. Robinson is the Sultan School Superintendent): Good evening. Al Robinson. I'm representing Sultan School District tonight. Two things I wanted to try and touch on with the council. First of all a reminder to the council and let you know that the school district on February 5th will be going out for a replacement M&O [maintenance and operations] levy to replace the four-year levy which is expiring this year in 2002. And then we'll take collection in 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. And I've taken the liberty to leave a few of the brochures back on your table for anybody who may want to see those. We want to emphasize this is a replacement levy. This is for maintenance and operations. A citizen at the last meeting mentioned that we were going out for a, a large bond, and I wanted to share that that is not the case. This is an M&O levy and it's a replacement levy. So anybody that has questions on that, please feel free to get ahold of me. The second thing I want to touch base on is, is in relation to the resource officer, and first of all, I don't think I could say enough nice things about the job that Andy and Colleen have done for the school district. Uh, we've, we've enjoyed an incredible relationship, since I've come on board, with the Sultan Police Department, and Andy and Colleen have been just exemplary in, in their efforts and in their work with not only kids, but staff and community, as they work through the school system. And I've really appreciated them very, very much. The COPS grants that the city currently has, uh, as I understand it, there are two of them, one of which expires March 31st of this year and the other one will expire June 30th of this year, which helps cover the salaries of those two officers, as I understand it. One of the questions, one of the things that we have talked about numerous times with city officials -- Fred Walser and one or two council members -- is the fact that the school district does in fact have some school safety funds which could, in fact, help match, uh, because I understand that there's some issue with the matching funds for these grants and/or any other grants that you may apply for along the line of school safety. And we stand very ready to sit down and talk with the city about how to do that. We just have not been able to get sat down and talked a little logistics of how to bill that and what we're actually billing for and, and we just need a very clean paper trail for the use of those funds. But we're willing to do that for you. Uh, I don't know a lot about the COPS program. I do hope if there's a way to reapply that the city is, in fact, doing that. As I looked at the last year application it appears that they had to be in approximately a year ahead of time, and so we may be in a real time crunch. Fred could answer that much better than I could. But the school resource officer is critical. And it's just a critical, critical position in our school system. And if we have the funds to do it, we would, we would probably hire a full-time person ourselves. But the funds that the state provides for school safety don't come anywhere near enough to do that. But we do stand ready to continue to work with you. We hope you can find a way to hold onto that position beyond the school year in some way, shape or form. And to Fred and the police officers, thank you for very much on behalf of Sultan Schools. You've done a fine job for us and we appreciate it. Thank you.
Janice [last name was unintelligible--the way the mayor pronounced it, it sounded kind of like, "Spread-ker". I do not know this person.] I want to thank the police officers of the town, the mayor, they've done a wonderful job here. I came in in '80, '80, I, since then and there's been great change in this town. For the best. And the children aren't on the street corners anymore hanging out. They've got things to do. It seems like the chief of police is very dedicated to his work and the children and keeping things up. So thank you.
Dave Boneham [Owner of DND Glass]: I have a glass shop here in town. Just mainly came to support our police department. Had a business for ten years and we have managed to not be robbed, entered, uh, in any way harmed by any, uh, unfortunate children or anything, and I appreciate that. And that's even despite an occasional maybe leaving bay doors wide open and going home for the weekend. So that really says quite a bit to me. And I also have a daughter in the high school, and she mentioned -- I believe last week -- there were some kids who were instructed about not carrying their illegal substances in the schools and that made quite an impression to far more than just the kids who got in trouble. That kind of stuff goes around the school very quickly, and that really shows the value of that officer there at the school. And basically I just came down to say 'thank you,' and as a citizen of the town, I, I do support our police department and I think they're doing a darn good job. Thank you.
Ray Kistenmacher [G.R.I.T. Co-founder]: I find it more than an incredible coincidence that the only person complaining about my recording equipment was personally involved in the fiasco he referred to. He and his family. I know the road that the city is going down -- [Ray's comments were interrupted by Ed "Chico Boucher yelling, "We got a big family, Ray! Are, who are you talking about?" to which Ray responded, "Just back off," at which point the mayor used his gavel.] -- and this road has been tried by other cities. We, too, have done some research. I'm going to give the city attorney a copy of the state attorney general's opinion [Ray gives Mr. Graafstra a copy of the AG's opinion, to which Mr. Graafstra responded, "Already read it."] -- all right. You might advise the mayor what it said in there.
Graafstra: Already supplied the mayor, and council and the city clerk with an opinion concerning the subject.
Kistenmacher Okay. Very good. And as far as any fiasco that may come, again, I reiterate, the only problem that has ever been caused was caused by the people that are complaining about it. Not by me.
Ed "Chico" Boucher [local developer and owner of the Dutch Cup Restaurant]: I'd like to make two or three comments. First is, uh, I'd like to say we appreciate our police department, too, but this did not just start because we bought a house a year or two ago or came driving into town or because we left our door open a few years back, and we've appreciated them for a lot of years. They've done a great job around here and I think there is not a soul in this room that doesn't appreciate Fred, the police department that we've got now. It's probably better than we've ever had. And I think that anything that's ever been said, whether it's for or against, uh, the situation, is strictly a budgetary situation. I don't think anybody has any problem with any one of the, the police chief or any of the officers. And hopefully we can keep everybody on board and be able to afford it. I don't know that much about that part of it, but I, I'll just make that comment that we've appreciated 'em for, uh, actually for 50 years. Since it was a one-man force. So I would say that about that. The other quick item I'd like to say is, um, is, uh, that new paper that somebody was referring to, uh, I read the article that she's referring to. I, I thought it was quite accurate, uh, as to what was said. I don't know that it was said the way it was meant, but that is the way I heard it at the council meeting. I thought it was quite accurate. Uh, next thing I'd like to say is about the recording, um, devices here. I think -- I'm not sure and I'm not even asking what's legal, what isn't legal. I know that this and hanging items is a problem. It'll be more of a problem if it, if it, if everybody continues to do this. But what I would like to say about it is 99% of us, uh, wait to get the minutes, uh, information from a council meeting until they have been, uh, put out, uh, approved by the council. And then you get a, uh, the accurate minutes. The problem that, um, the last speaker there is referring to is that we're getting -- and I suppose this is possible whether it's recorded or not -- we're getting a, uh, an unapproved, uh, minutes put out there that are not, uh, anywhere near what is being said, or, uh, accuracy (sic). And that's what the problem is and if, if we need a, if the council needs a petition of some sort signed, it's not just one or two people that have a problem with this, it's, it's a number of people. Quite a few people. And, uh, the city's official minutes and, from their recording and from the transcripts or whatever, it doesn't make particular council people sound like idiots. They don't do the "does" and the "uh's" and the double-repeats and leave out unintelligible kind of thing. That's my complaint with, with this situation and with the recording. I think if we're going to be videotaping or, or recording, it should be done from the chair with your own personal equipment. And... thank you.
Karen McIntosh [an Eagle Ridge resident]: I kind of looked at the budget in here. Well, guys, I am thrilled that you are protecting my family in this town for the little money that you make. [comment addressed to the police.] Thank you. And I'm so sorry that it is so little [applause]. Uh, Mr. Mayor, I'm asking this council to please look into revenues to bring into the city. Um, you have a lot of commercial property up the road that could bring in some wonderful businesses that we desperately need in this town. And those revenues would help bring this, you people's salary up to what it should be to protect our town. And I want to thank them because they have been to my home. I've had my car egged. I've had my house paint-balled. And I only lived in my house less than a year when it was paint-balled. And I thank them for coming out, taking the report, and doing the best they could to find out how did it. So I just hope that this city would stop bickering about microphones and find a solution to bringing more revenue into this city. Um, bringing business in so that we have a place to shop so we don't have to go spend our dollars down in Monroe. Thank you. [applause]
Cindy Broughton [Ex-city councilmember]: This may surprise you. I'm here to support the police department. [smattering of laughter]. At a time when the rest of our country has realized how important police and fire people are, it seems like the City of Sultan has kind of, um, not realized that yet. Well, not all of us, anyway. They do a heck of a job. And they don't make a whole lot of money. And sometimes when you don't make a lot of money, at least if you've got job security you know that your paycheck's going to be there next month, it's a big plus in your life. For somebody to go up and give you a pat on the back and say, "You know what? You doin' one heck of a job," also a big plus when you're not making a lot of money. Might want to consider those things. Thanks. [applause]
Jeff Wilson: I'm a citizen here in Sultan and also a business owner of Adventure Taxidermy. As a citizen I'd like to say it makes me feel good when I see the police driving down my street in my neighborhood. As a business owner it makes me feel good in the morning and I see that little blue card that says, hey, we were by last night and checked your business, make sure all the doors were locked and all. This gentleman said, uh, we all [unintelligible] have a good reason to feel comfortable. Well, that's what he -- I just don't think it's something that we can afford not to have. I would hate to see, uh, less availability of our police to drive by and check my neighborhood and check our businesses. And, uh, I worked up there at WSR in the prison for about nine and a half years, and I know what kind of people are out and about here. And let's not, uh, anybody be kidding ourselves. They are here, too. They're everywhere and they look just like we do. I think it's important to say on top of issues of, uh, crime law enforcement in our city, and, uh, not to let crime get ahead of us to where now we're working to get back on top of it. I think right now I feel like we're on top of it here, and I feel safe in this, uh, town. And that's pretty much all I have to say. I'm here to speak in support of the police, and I don't want to see us, uh, get into a situation where we're scrambling to get more police on the force now that we're in trouble. So, thank you. [applause]
Stan Otto: Starting to get used to this public speaking now. I'm not going to make a comment in regards to the recording. Uh, my main concern is that, uh, when everything is drawn up that I am hearing what is actually said in the city council meeting that I am reading the actual words of what is being said. I don't want anything omitted, left out, etc. So I could personally care who, you know, records. That's my opinion on that. As long as we hear the truth and, and everything that's involved. Number two, I know the city of Redmond, I've been to some of their city council meetings, they have TV cameras set up. They have a microphone in each one of these councilmembers. You can turn on the channel to their, uh, to their channel and you can watch it. For the elderly that can't get out to the city council meetings, I think that's a pretty great idea, because there are some people that can't make it. I'm not saying that Sultan should do that. But I'm just saying the people out there need a means of sharing what goes on in these meetings. Number three, uh, I, I, too am here for the police department. I think they're a valuable asset to this community. I heard a comment the other day that kind of frightened me. Um, an individual made a quote stating that, uh, what's, why should we have a police officer in the school? Shouldn't the teachers be responsible for that? I gotta tell you, as a taxpayer, I want to pay the teachers to teach, not to police. And that's where I come from on that issue. I think it's very important to have that officer in the school. For many reasons. Number one, it's over-crowding. My grandson goes to the middle school. He has to fight his way down the halls to get from class to class. I think we know that what occurs in a situation like that, uh, people become aggressive in, a, in a crowded room. We're doin' fine here, but you know. [laughter] But you know it can happen, we're all aware of that. So I think it's extremely important, for number one, the city council some way or another to maintain the police force we have. I, I would personally pay more. Number two, to keep that officer in that school on a full-time basis instead of a part-time basis. I believe in proactive. I don't want to read about it and say, three kids have got shot in our school. Gee, we should've done something about that, shouldn't we? We should have listened to somebody. I don't like that. That's bad news. Uh, and you know, the kids are our most important commodity. They're going to grow up to sit there where you're sitting. And I think they need a solid foundation to do that. Thank you. [applause]
Brady Boucher (Redux): I had, uh, was going to wait until the end to discuss this, but it was open [unintelligible] respond to the discussion, so I will not respond, but, uh, I wanted to give the rest of my information that I was going to save till last. But first I wanted to say, and, uh, Fred'll probably be shocked to [be]lieve this, but, uh, I make a, I make a living say (sic) driving. And, uh, the reason that I am allowed to have a professional combination driver's license is being on the wrong end of those guys. And being on the wrong end of those guys -- having their lights flash in my mirror -- and it was pretty constant there for a few years, wasn't it, Fred? -- was, uh, probably one of the best things that happened to me. And, uh, I'll state my support with that and just leave it at that. Regarding the state, uh, attorney general. I called that office and discussed that, that very issue today. And, uh, I didn't read their opinion, nor do I want to. I spoke with one of their representatives. And they said that in no way will you ban recording from a person when it's on their person. Now, I didn't mention this before. I also spoke with the City of Everett. The City of Everett, any public recording, any recording that is not on-person, any recording that is separate from the individual, must be -- prior to enacting it -- must be okayed by the mayor. And that goes from TV stations right down to Joe Public. And the mayor can, and has, said no to that. The right for someone to record ends when it leaves their person. And I would just stress the city council take that into advisement. As far as me, my family, whatever you want to call it being the only complainers, I have a petition that I'm, that I have signatures on -- I haven't completed it yet -- but it is very strong, and it is not all Bouchers. Thank you.
Loretta Storm [G.R.I.T. co-founder and webmaster of www.ittakesgrit.org]: I think we all know what the problem is with the recording equipment. Everyone in this room knows what the problem is. And it's not our equipment. We started recording initially because the city's recordings were so poor. Hearings -- key hearings -- one of which may come up in a court case -- is inaudible. It's virtually blank. Um…I'd like to explain to Mr. Graafstra that -- I don't know if you've been on the website or if you've been talking to anybody -- but Grant Weed was here in your place, and there was a boom box placed here a couple of weeks ago. The mayor had objected to us putting something on the ceiling, so we got a one-inch clear Lucite stand. We put it here [indicating the podium]. It was this, this thick, this wide [indicating with her fingers how "big" it was]. It wasn't blocking anybody. And when we did that, Mr. Boucher, Mr. Ed Boucher, came over and put this huge boom box on the podium, basical--basically obscuring most of it. That was, that was fine. You know, but Grant Weed said that was very inappropriate. The next thing that happened was we came in and there was a table, a six-foot table all set up here. Well, of course, we can't account why it was set up ahead of time, and there were three boom boxes on it, and two five-foot-tall mics standing on the table. Two of those boom boxes were totally inoperable. One was actually running a tape, I don't know if it was recording. None of the equipment was hooked up to the mics. It's pretty clear what's going on here. I can't speak for other cities, but I can speak for state law and for law across this country, which states that people have a right -- a responsibility -- privilege and a responsibility -- to monitor what is happening with their government. And the decisions you make tonight could potentially set a precedent and set law, because this one [emphasizing by tapping on the podium] is important enough to fight all the way. Um… I, I would like to ask you to take a look at our website if you haven't [speaking to Mr. Graafstra]. We have all the pictures of what's gone on and a story about what's happened. If you need it. I don't think you need anything more than law, but --
Graafstra As, as I said earlier, I've already supplied the council and the mayor and staff with a, an opinion about private recording of open city council meetings. And it's been distributed to the council members that are here, and it supplies some suggestions, and this happens to be a discussion item, I believe that's been added to our agendas, Item 3 in the discussion. So, councilmembers, since it's their meeting, their the ones that set the rules, will, um, take what we've suggested into account and make some decisions accordingly.
Storm Okay. One more thing I'd like to add is regarding transcriptions of "um's", "uh's," stutters and the rest of that, as a professional transcriptionist who has made my living that way for the last seven years, I will tell you that that is the correct way of doing a precise legal transcription unless you have given notations within that transcription to the contrary, and/or the customer has requested something different.
Graafstra [nodding in agreement - laughter follows] I've discovered how inarticulate I can be some of the time in answering a question.
Storm Yes, I'm sorry. So have I, so have I. Thank you.
Jeff Kirkland [Willow Run resident]: I find this really interesting. I'm new in town about a year here, and, uh, this bickering going on with microphones and things like that --I come from a bigger place and I can tell you, city hall meetings have hundreds of microphones around if you are a larger city. I come from a city that is about 30, 40 times larger than Sultan. Um…one thing that strikes me here is this complete fear of information. What are you people afraid of? What are you so afraid of that you must try to stop people from recording? That you must stop people from their First Amendment rights? I, I don't get it. I really do not get it. It is beyond me. I didn't grow up in this country. One of the things Americans seem to always pride themselves on is the First Amendment right. What is this about, guys? I really would like to know. And I hope that this council will see through the little theatrics and will go the right way with this. It's unbelievable. Thanks. [extended and loud applause]
[End of public comments]
Rowe Two things I would like to make comments on here as we go into the council member comments. Number one is, we are in the process of putting in a better microphone system in here. At the moment I'm the only one wearing a microphone. I get the first one because I'm so soft-spoken. In the near future, everybody will have a microphone and we hope to have a better recording system. I believe it'll be a CD-burner, for those of you who know what that is. It's a better system that what we've got. So we are working towards that. The other thing is with the police department, there's been a lot of publicity in the last few days, part of it true, part of it untrue. But I want one thing understood. It seems to come that it's the council and the mayor against the police department. That's not true. We all live in this town, too, and we all need the police department just as bad as everyone sitting in this room. We've all kids and grandkids that're here and go to school here, and they're just as important to us as your kids are to you. And we've tried every way we could to work that budget around to keep everybody we can, and we finally came up [unintelligible] that the police officers on their own volunteered to do what they did, and we do appreciate that. Like I say, we live here, too, and we need those guys just as bad as you did. [smattering of applause]. With that, I will open up for council member comments.
Bruce Champeaux: I had the privilege last night of sitting in and viewing artwork of the Sultan High School students of what will one day be our new sign at the, uh, entrance to our community. And Donna, I would like for you to pass onto Mr. Armstrong and those students, my thanks and appreciation, I'm sure the rest of the councilmembers, for their, for their time and effort. And, um, the artwork was very good, and a heck of a lot better than what I could ever attempt to do. And from what they have done in a couple of revisions, we're going to have something very fine to put up [unintelligible]. So pass on my thank you. And the other one is, excuse my tardiness tonight. I was at my son's basketball awards and there was 25 kids on the team and his name was last. So I'm thinking as I'm sitting there looking at, looking at the clock wondering why he can't be announced the first five or six, but it was [unintelligible]. So I'm sorry.
Rob Criswell: Fred, I, I agree with the mayor. We don't, we don't have a problem with our police department. We do have a problem finding money to support 'em. Everybody seems to think I hate the chief and I hate JC and I hate the police department. Well, that's not true. I do have an, uh, strong opinion about funds. I don't spend my money foolishly and I don't expect our, our people that have control of our money here in town to spend their money that way. And that's -- money is the only reason that we even talked about laying anybody off. The, uh, the union contract was, was not signed, so we couldn't give them their deductions that they said they were going to take. We didn't have any control over it. We had to, we had to rat--if, if, until that contract was ratified, we couldn't….pay them less than what we'd been paying them before. Consequently that means layoffs, 'cause we didn't have enough money for the budget. Um, I don't know if every, everybody finds that the way it should be, but anyway, we did not want to have to lay anybody off.
Dusty Boucher: I certainly hope whatever, uh, miscommunications occurred we learn from that, because it was getting rather frustrating to have been part of the executive session, and then over the last week get four or five different versions, none of them that matched what I felt actually occurred. So I don't know if that was a -- which end that miscommunication was coming from, but I don't think that's fair to these folks, uh, not fair to our police department, it's not fair to the council. We need to do a better job of communicating clearly under those situations.
Perry McPherson: I just want to thank the chief and all the police, uh, uh, people for doing their job and I fully support you.
Jim Porter: I'd like to say that I'm glad we've got that ironed out. It's been in limbo since [unintelligible] in November. It's been a [unintelligible; someone coughed] for all of us, and I'm glad [unintelligible] up. But I would like to say one more thing, too, concerning this Health Watch here that Martin talked about awhile ago. [goes onto talk about general negative health statistics, especially related to women.]
Jeff Everett: I just want to reiterate something that Dusty has said, and that is it's incredibly frustrating to hear so many different versions of what went on. And we can't confirm or deny anything that happens in executive session. We're, we're bound by law. We cannot discuss it. And It's just incredibly frustrating to hear all the different versions that's gone on and not be able to say anything about it. Uh, Chief, I just want to say, you guys have done an outstanding job. I appreciate your police force and I appreciate the job you've done with them.
Mark Raney: A couple of things. Now that I'm sitting in the catbird [far left] seat, I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I still think that council ought to develop rules so that the votes on issues rotate from councilmember-to-councilmember so that people sitting at the end of the table don't have the, uh, um, opportunity to find which way the vote's gonna go. [Clarifying question from Rob Criswell] No, I don't think we should change chairs, but I think we should just ro--have something even -- as I said before -- a candy jar that when we vote it moves to that person and then the vote starts where the candy jar is, or whatever we decide to use to mark it. We can set the rules of the council, just the way we can set the rules about recording devices. So I just think it's something [unintelligible] considered because it's, you know, I think we get a better idea of how people feel if they're voting early on an issue sometimes. So, the other thing is that I had an email from someone in town that is part of a group that uses old city hall and they're having to sit and lay on the floor for their meetings. I'd like to see if there was not some way to pick up second-hand chairs or something like that to put in there? [A discussion ensues about getting second-hand, or inexpensive chairs; says current chairs are fairly old, perhaps replace 10 of the old folding chairs each year -- which are about 15 years or older, or stackable patio chairs or something.] The other, other comment I wanted to make was to thank Thom and Grant for their comments with regard to recording and affirming that the citizens do, in fact, have a right to record. It's been upheld in previous decisions in the attorney general's office, as well as through the Municipal Research Center [www.mrsc.org] and also the direction that recording devices be unobtrusive, which, um, I think it's good direction and I hope we can have a good discussion about that and decide something. And the last issue I have is, not to jump on the police bandwagon, actually I wanted to relay some complaints about the police department. I had a patient come in who's a council member of another Snohomish County city and also one in New York, that he was in New York state as well. He sat on a jury that was hearing a case involving a drunk driver arrested by Sultan police, and this man was quite upset that our police commander had done such a, an excellent job of prosecuting this man and making a case that at the end of the hearing, the man changed his case, or, his plea to guilty and they didn't have a chance to convict him, so [laughter], will you knock that off, J.C.? Nice job.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
Presentation on Economic Development
Tom Boydell with the Central Puget Sound Economic Development District and Allison Singh, the Senior Economic Development Officer from Snohomish County made a proposal for an economic development partnership which could include cities of Granite Falls, Lake Stevens, Snohomish, Monroe, Sultan and Gold Bar, as well as the Snohomish County government, the Snohomish Economic Development Council and the Economic Development district which covers the entire four-county area. Mr. Boydell's entity is the one which helped obtain funding for the LID 97 project. They were there to obtain Sultan's participation and financial investment in trying to perform "marketing" for the eastside LID, to work with Sultan to participate in a multi-city pool of $25,000 fund to be able to hire a "joint consultant" to perform marketing work for all the cities, allowing his firm/entity to obtain even greater funding, which would bring Sultan's share down to the minimum $1,000 amount. The consultant study would perform an inventory of available lands for the general eastern part of the county from Route 9 eastward, which would strengthen our position in attracting more economic development to Sultan. A city's financial participation will guide the benefits that they would receive from this program.
Mr. Singh's comments follow: When we got involved with the question about the rural communities, former councilmember Michael Ashley had asked us whether there was any possibility to help the city of Granite Falls. And that opened the discussion in terms of all of the cities east of I-5. And as we put our heads together and we worked with the Central Puget Sound Economic Development District, we saw an opportunity to tap into their technical assistance grant for small cities. One of the outcomes of this is the recommendation that the local economy -- we're all struggling to kind of maintain our economic base. Urban cities have their challenges as well as rural cities. The focus that we would like to do, and in fact, the Economic Development Council had their annual retreat today, was to talk about how we build capacity in terms of quality communities, and that both our rural and urban cities are on the same basis in terms of having an opportunity to have some self-determination to achieve the visions and dreams of any economic development opportunities that are available. One of the things that we found in the process in terms of getting federal funds or state funds, is the ability to build capacity, to build a basis of an inventory, a network of information that is common for anybody that is going to make a business investment in a community. So one of the things that is an outgrowth of this exercise is the ability for the rural communities to share their expertise among themselves to help us identify the niches that are beneficial to their respective communities, then allow that information to get out on the table so that we can begin to match. And one of the primary roles of the Economic Development Council as part of their five-year plan is to expand the manufacturing base to draw in investments in terms of biotech, high tech, raise the family wage jobs in the area into the $38,000 to $40,000 bracket. All of that is going to happen. Growth is going to happen. Part of the thing is how do we distribute all of that growth equally and allow all of our communities to benefit from that investment over time. So one of the options that we're looking at now is to work with our rural communities, get them prepared and understand what their needs are, what they would like, and then allow our other partners to be able to use that information to help you achieve your particular missions or visions. In some cities their focus is on Main Streets, others want to develop industrial sites, and so I think the timing's right and if we work together I think we can achieve some significant things in the near future.
[Further discussion and council questions were not transcribed.]
Mark Raney asked: "We don't have this as an action item. Is there a chance that we can actually vote on this tonight?"
This item was added on and the council voted later in the meeting to invest at least $1,000 for a beginning financial participation.
Finance Committee (Rob Criswell and Perry McPherson)
McPherson: We had a meeting. We discussed the loan of $490,000 as to where we should pay for that, either through bonds and add money to it, which would bring it to a million. And the interest rate on that would be about 5.37% and the sum would be $1.6 million once that's paid over a 20-year period. Commercial loan would be 5.5% over a 10-year period and that would be $625,000. And an interlocal--or an inter--[unintelligible] here within the city would be 2.5%, be a 10-year loan and if that was a four-and-eighty, why, that would cost us $542,000. So we recommended that we go that route, that route.
Koenig I gave you copies of the loan amortization schedule.
Criswell Also, the interest comes back to us when --
McPherson Comes back to the city.
Criswell -- it doesn't go to some finance company.
Rowe Okay. We'll be taking action on that a little later, I think.
Raney Could I ask a question? If we were to go out to a [unintelligible] construction project, and needed to match, would we be able to claim the amount that we had come to the fund as a match, or only what we had in the fund at the time?
Koenig I'm not quite sure I'm understanding you.
Raney We're going to take this money out of… someplace.
Koenig Utilities.
Raney Utilities.
Koenig CR Utilities.
Raney Okay. And we use that money for capital improvements?
Koenig Right.
Raney Infrastructure, things like that. Do we ever use that money to leverage in order to obtain grant money or matching funds?
Koenig Yes, we do.
Raney And, and my question is, are they going to -- let's say they need a match of -- or of $2 million or something like that, and we're short 100 and -- by $400,000. Are they going to allow us to use what we've got out of an interfund loan on paper as being matchable, or not?
Koenig That would -- it would actually depend on how you're structuring it. If you're borrowing the money, because this money would be going back. It's done on an annual basis, so yes. You can use it as, on a match. Sometimes we don't always have the match in-hand when we go out after these projects. Like we're going to discuss that later tonight. We've added an agenda item. We have three projects that we need to proceed on and will need, need a match, should they're approved, be approved. And we won't necessarily identify where that money's coming from right now.
Raney But most of the granting agencies would look at an I.O.U. as being real assets?
Koenig Yeah. They're going to be looked at --we've talked about the additional bonding, and we do have some projects that we may have to go for bonding on. Borrowing that $500,000 now for park purchases may restrict this for some other projects that are coming down the pipeline. And our bonding capacity would be maxed. If we're worth $1 million now, basically we wouldn't have any more non-voted bonding capacity. And this is kind of frustrates you because if we have more money in the real estate taxes -- Because it's one of those things, too, that kind of goes up and down with the economy, you can pay this loan off anytime you want. Without penalties or…. You can increase the amount. You guys pretty much control the terms of an interfund load.
Raney One, one-and-a-half percent over the rate of inflation, it's sort of silly to do that, but… [trails off]
Porter [unintelligible] I'm wondering where it's an interdepartment loan, I don't quite follow what Mark was getting at, I guess, how it would be used for leverage. Because it is an in-house loan. It just doesn't make -- it didn't add up to me. On this [unintelligible].
Koenig We have to ask Mark for clarification.
Porter You make money there. Your money is in this department here, it's going to be transferred to this one. And this one over here's going to be taking interest on it, but it's money in the city coffers.
Raney Well, right. But, but Connie, she can't go out and buy a car on the money that Fred owes her.
Dunn Like when, when we -- we don't take money out of the garbage truck fund or out of our vehicle rental fund. And we got out and buy three cars. Well, if I need a new sweeper, I couldn't, I had to go borrow money from the state. I couldn't go out and spend the money that Fred had -- well, that the police had bought cars with to buy the sweeper. I had to go and get some money from the state. So that, you do have it tied up to some extent. But, like Laura said, there's a payback, and this does affect our bonding, so let's protect ourselves and work best for the whole city, not just one or two departments. I mean we're all one, one way or the other.
Raney Can we hug? [raucous laughter follows]
Police Department:
Chief Fred Walser thanks everyone for their comments in support of the police, then recognizes Andy Williams for his efforts. [enthusiastic applause] "Andy has resigned and is accepting a job in another agency in 'City X.' And he has been the school resource officer for us and patrol officer, and has done probably one of the best jobs I've ever seen in schools. And he's getting a plaque from us -- not ready today -- but I think Andy deserves the city's thanks. I wanted to recognize him publicly for a good job." [enthusiastic applause] Fred introduces Colleen Holman, who is a state-certified school resource officer, who will be assuming Andy's role. Fred also recognized Commander J. C. Becker, who did the SPD Financial report, which he finished at 4:00 a.m. that morning.
A Comment by Rowe:
"The comments I wanted to make, was just because people are leaving -- it's kind of out of order a little bit -- but it has been -- in response to [unintelligible] about suppression of information here, I believe that [unintelligible] said it awhile ago -- two issues that come to mind of one, is our recording device here. At no time have, as I know of, has anybody tried to stop anyone from recording anything in these meetings. They're welcome to it. It's a public right. They can record whatever they want. The other one there was a statement in the paper the other day that we have refused to let the police department do an audit of the city books. That is a false statement. They can do an audit anytime they want to. So can anybody else. Anyone of you that wants to. All you have to do is pay for it. That's all [unintelligible]. It's about $14,000 to $16,000 for an audit. So, anyway, that's all I… [trails off].
Further Comments by Donna Murphy:
Sky Valley community awards night scheduled for Saturday, February 9th, which are awards for communities from Sultan through Gold Bar. Each agency gives an award for volunteerism or a community efforts award, then they all get together to select a Citizen of the Year award. The get-together of the communities to decide on the Sky Valley Citizen of the Year will be held 6:00 p.m., Monday, February 4th in the community center.
MAYOR REINFORCES THE NEED FOR CHAPERONS FOR SATURDAY NIGHT SAFE STOP EVENTS: "One thing I'd like to throw in here, too. We have this Safe Stop thing on Saturday night. I don't know how many of you are familiar with that. But we really need chaperons for that. We're not able to keep it open every Saturday night now, and it's something we really need to do. And we need chaperons. It's only three hours, Saturday night from 8:00 to 11:00. We need 6 to 8 adults there each evening."
Consent Agenda passed unanimously.
ACTION ITEMS:
Action Item #1 - Removed.
#2 Mountain View Chevron Conditional Use Permit - Hearing Examiner recommendations - Rick Cisar gave summary, all "aye's" except for Dusty Boucher.
#3 Resolution to Set Hearing for Final Assessment Role for LID 97-1 - Hearing was set for February 27th - 7:00 p.m. at Sultan Middle School. (Note: Hearing Examiner Wayne Tanaka is being used rather than our regular Hearing Examiner, John Galt.)
Mr. Graafstra made a comment:
"Just one additional piece of information. Conversations are still proceeding between the city engineer, Mr. Bourne, and the contractor. It's hoped that there'll be a final resolution of the final pay requests for the contract for the work we've done as part of this LID by the end of this week. Should it turn out that there is not a final resolution on [there was a brief hiccup here in the sound] we may have to put this hearing to get a later date. But it's [unintelligible] getting a date set now."
Koenig We're really pushing this, because our, um, bond -- our, our interim financing [unintelligible] May 1st. There's a 45-day appeal period after the assessment hearing, which is going to be cutting it real close for us. So as Thom says, you have your engineers, your attorneys and staff are really --
Graafstra And your appraiser.
Koenig -- and the appraisers, are really putting in some time to keep this on schedule.
(Vote: Unanimous with the exception of Jim Porter, who abstained.)
#4 - Appointment of Mayor Pro Tem - Rob nominated Jim Porter, Jeff Everett nominated Perry McPherson. Jim was elected pro-tem, with Jeff Everett the only "nay" vote.
#5 Approve Grant and Loan Applications
Applications for Coastal Zone Management Planning Grant and the other is Centennial Clean Water and Public Works trust fund low-interest loan application.
(a) Coastal zone management planning to fund a shoreline master plan which would dovetail with other comp plan updates in process. Total projects costs of are $50,000, with a 50% match. Matching funds can be in-kind monetary contributions, labor (city staff or volunteer labor), volunteer equipment, donations, etc. DEADLINE: February 4th. (During the discussion, Laura Koenig mentioned that city was spending approximately $140,000 on the city's surface water quality plan, and about $60,000 on comp plan update.) VOTE: passed unanimously.
(b) Centennial Clean Water Loan: DEADLINE is March 5th. This is a 1.5% loan to fund I&I (inflow and Infiltration) planning and construction. This subject will be discussed during a proposed 3-hour council workshop January 30th at 6:00 p.m. The total costs are $300,000, which will be an ongoing project for several years.
Connie Dunn (Public works Director) then explained that the city has several areas in town where we have stormwater or groundwater entering into our sewage collection system. And we know that it creates problems. It limits capacity at the Wastewater treatment plant. It will be further identified in both the sewer comp plan and surface water quality management plan. Problem needs to be addressed asap. Laura Koenig said the interest rate fluctuates between 1/2% to 1.5%, depending on the city's match, which can be a 10%, 20% or 30% match, and that determines the loan interest rate, and is a sliding scale, depending on how much you put in. (I.e., a $30,000 match will achieve a lower interest rate, etc.) Connie said this would help pay for engineering designs and repairs, like catch basins in certain areas of the city, two problems areas being Alder at 5th and Alder at 6th are the worst, as well as some parking lots on private property that need to be taken out and a couple of city buildings that need to have their roof drains taken out.
Dunn We know we've got some major problems and we just get moving on it, and this is one way we can start that process.
Rowe We need to get moving on it. No question about it. I talked with a fellow -- can't remember his name -- from the DOE [Department of Ecology]?
Dunn: Ken Zeibart.
Rowe Yes. He highly recommended we do this. He knows we have this I&I and it overloads our sewer plant when it rains hard, like we had a few days ago. [Rowe is referring to the December 13, 2001 "dancing manhole cover" incident.] So he highly recommends we do this. And to keep ourselves in good graces, I think we should get moving on it.
VOTE: Unanimous to move forward.
#6 Approval for participation in Evergreen Trust Initiative (Economic Development proposal)
Raney I'd like to make a motion that the city approve the city of Sultan participation in the Evergreen Trust Initiative, and that we propose to the business community and the Chamber of Commerce a 50% investment in the $1,000, um, uh, fee for inclusion.
Criswell We can ask for it, you mean? Ask them if they're willing to help. IS that what you're saying?
[unintelligible comments]
Rowe Any discussion on it? If not, Bruce? VOTE: unanimous to proceed.
#7 Financing for Bond/Loan - (Report was made previously; Laura phrased the motion for councilmembers that the city proceed with the interfund loan.) VOTE was unanimous.
DISCUSSION ITEMS:
Reimbursement of Recall Expenses:
Jeff Everett asked Mr. Graafstra if he should recuse himself because of his participation on the recall effort against the mayor.
Everett "Okay. I, I stepped in, in place of Mark Tuohy. It was never ruled upon by the court as a, the, uh, the petition was subsequently dismissed. But I was, I was a substitute petitioner. But it was never ruled upon as accepted.
Graafstra I would recommend that you not participate in the discussion."
Mayor Rowe, Jim Porter and Jeff Everett left the room. Here's the discussion:
McPherson I guess we just open it up for discussion, and just go around the room on this. I know I have my thoughts on it.
Male You want to start the input, then?
McPherson Sure. I can start. Okay. The way that I kind of looked at this, if a recall was initiated against any elected official -- and I'm not sure of all the terminology on this, so the attorney can help me on this -- if it had merit and went forward, then I do not believe that the city should pay for it. If it had no merit and did not go forward, then I think the individual that brought it should pay for it, is my thinking.
Criswell My recollection was when we voted on Mark's that it was said that any, any recall reimbursement would be made upon the, uh, the condition that the recall never really went through, and that the city would be responsible for that. That's my recollect--you know.
McPherson Bruce, you want to get in, step into this?
Champeaux Well, having limited knowledge of, of this, I have just gone through, uh, minutes of old meetings. And in here on June 13, 2001, councilmember Criswell moved that the city pay the legal expense if the council member is not recalled, and not pay if they are recalled. Seconded by Councilmember Eslick. All ayes.
D. Boucher I would -- I, I think the key was it was never completed, never ruled upon, therefore the merits that you speak of, I don't think in my mind were judged yea or nay. So I don't see this being much different than [unintelligible]. It's a tough situation. It's unfortunate. The bill is not insubstantial. But I just don't feel right to [unintelligible]. We approved one and we're not going to approve the other.
McPherson My, my only feeling is, is I think there was a difference between the two. And the reason that this last one didn't go forward is the because the person that brought it moved out of town, and so it must have had merit. And so that's the way I would look at it, good, bad or indifferent.
Criswell But they had somebody step in was willing to take that forward, and the court --
McPherson But they never did really go forward with it.
Criswell Decided not to go forward with it.
McPherson They just didn't go forward, period. They didn't ever move on it.
Criswell [unintelligible] the recall didn't go through, according to these minutes and all the ayes we have [unintelligible].
Boucher(?) [unintelligible] cost these gentleman $17,000 and then moved away, and, uh…
Raney Um, well, first of all I was not in the room for any of the discussions [unintelligible], so I've had to rely on the record as the new councilmembers have [unintelligible] were here. I have had some discussions with both Councilmembers Eslick and Ostrom, and I will say that their recollection of the discussions and agreements are different than what's recorded in the Minutes. But I feel like I'm bound to go by what's in the documents that were approved by council. I would agree with Mr. McPherson that I believe that the recalls were quite different. In fact one was ruled as being insufficient legally and otherwise, and the other one was ruled to be sufficient legally. And for other reasons it was dismissed. Now, given that, I can't tell you whether or not the person who brought that recall knew that they were going to be moving out of town and so did it for harassment sake or did it for, um, an honest effort to proceed with that. And that leaves some doubt in my mind. The other issue is that I do feel that we need to protect city officials with something, because while it might have cost someone nothing to bring a recall effort, um, I know that it cost me $5,000 out of my pocket initially, and it's cost these gentlemen money out of their pockets as well, as well as the time and aggravation and all of the other garbage that goes along with lawsuits, whether you're a doctor or a councilman. It's no fun. And so I think that we need to approve this, but I do also think that, like Mr. McPherson said, that we need to look at other options that the city has to recoup the monies that we pay for legal fees, and possibly get that monies from people who bring frivolous actions against city officials. And I would ask for some permission to have the attorney at least briefly look at that question so that we can stem the bleeding from these and stop further actions like this.
Graafstra Let me -- I'd like to just respond to that last comment Councilmember Raney just made. It's not technically a party to the recall proceeding. That's why, for example, the city attorney did not take any role in these actions other than, if an inquiry came in because documents or information was sought, we might respond to that inquiry. But we, we did not, the city's not a party to a recall petition. So the, the city is not in a legal position to try and recover attorney's fees spent, assuming, for example, that a recall petition might be frivolous. It's not a party to the proceeding. Whether the council member or the mayor who is a party to the proceeding, in a proceeding is subsequently dismissed, might have some basis to recover attorney's fees expended against the other party, it's really not for me to say. But if anybody had standing to attempt to recover attorneys' fees from the petitioners, it would have been the council member or the mayor as the case may be, in the recall petition. Not the city itself. So that's, that's a laudable goal to suggest the city try to recover any monies that may have been expended to reimburse from these matters from the petitioners. The city's just not in a position to do that.
Criswell It's a good idea, but…
Raney Then I guess I would like to propose that at the next meeting, we bring back an action item that would, we could vote on reimburse of these with the caveat that the if the petitioner is ever, um, to compensate the individuals for the monies, that, that we, the city, reimburse.
Criswell Do what, now? If, if they sue and get money for theirs, then we should be re--reimbursed?
Raney If there's action brought against the proponent by the, um, subjects of the recall action, and, and they win that and get monies back from the petitioner --
Criswell Right.
Raney -- that the city then be reimbursed the amount that we have paid him covering his, both of their attorney's fees.
Criswell Yeah. That sounds fine to me. If it's legal.
Graafstra Remember what I just said: The city can't recover these attorneys' fees for anybody.
Male Not directly from…
Graafstra But certainly it's within your discretion if you choose to reimburse his recall expenses to condition that reimbursement on recovery, um, by the party reimbursed, should they then recover that money from the third party, the petitioner.
Boucher Yeah, I think you -- the phrase, "Stop the bleeding," I am totally in favor of that. This, this environment, uh, we disagree, therefore, here comes the recall. A city can't run under those conditions. You know, there are people who -- quality candidates -- who may not run for the betterment of this city because they go, well, I have my views and they're not popular for everybody. So therefore, I'm not going to get into that mess. And, uh, why…the petitioner left? We don't know. But the fact is, he did, and so he sort of left this thing unresolved. It never got to have its day in court, so we must reimburse it.
McPherson I've got one question for Laura. If this was approved, can -- [unintelligible] our budget constraints -- can it be paid over a period of time?
Koenig It would have to, at this point, right now.
McPherson Well, that's what I'm saying --
Koenig Right now you don't have --
McPherson Well, I know we don't have the money, so --
Koenig Money to pay it. So we would have to do a budget amendment actually to pay it to start with.
Graafstra From a legal standpoint, since reimbursement is at the option of the city council, you can condition that repayment in any fashion you desire. Including making periodic payments or not payments at all, if that's your choice.
Champeaux So do we at some point as a council, as seven members, need to take, make some kind of language, uh, stating our beliefs on this? As far as what to pay, what not to pay? Look to get money back if they are reimbursed by, where the person filing the recall petition? The method of payment? Since the city finances is the way it is? Be paid out either all at once or [someone coughs, obscuring words] financial troubles to be paid out over a period of time? That way, that way if it comes up again, we have something already down. We don't have to go back and discuss it and hash it out for I think a period of time that's pretty well cut-and-dried?
Male [unintelligible].
Champeaux Well, I [unintelligible] some precedent. I mean, make it consistent with the way things went with the last reimbursement. Short of [unintelligible]. It might take three or four months to finally get paid.
Male This sends a [unintelligible].
Raney I think this sends a pretty clear message, and that we'll stand behind people on the council if it's found to be either without merit or does not proceed to a vote. I think we still haven't decided whether or not the vote needs to be thumbs up or thumbs down. But I would say that if there's enough merit that it proceeds to a ballot, that, then those would not be repaid. Then that becomes a political decision and not a legal one.
Criswell Right. Now, we discussed that part of it, when we were discussing it, that if it did, in fact, go to recall and they did, in fact, vote on it, and, and they were recalled, we would not reimburse them.
Raney Right.
Criswell That was our discussion. Why it didn't get into the minutes, I don't know.
Raney But I'm saying that if it goes to the vote, at that point that it's not reimbursable. There was enough legal sufficiency to the proposal that…
Criswell [unintelligible].
McPherson Can we at this time to direct the attorney to go ahead and see what he can do for us about writing this up? Generally what you want what Bruce is talking about?
Criswell Well, actually, they were both saying the same thing.
Champeaux Same thing.
McPherson Right. Same thing, yeah.
Raney I don't know if we need Thom to do it. Laura, you can put that together in the form of an action item?
Koenig [no audible response]
Raney And then if -- maybe we need to bring this back after this is essentially voted on, then include the other three in the discussion so we can set a policy and make it a discussion item for --
Criswell That's right.
McPherson [unintelligible] we got a clean council where we can use everybody [laughing]. Shall we go for a motion, then?
Criswell I think we already had one, didn't we?
Raney I did make a motion, I think, didn't I?
Voices [unintelligible].
Graafstra It's actually on the agenda only as a discussion item.
Raney Right. I made the motion to bring it back as an action item, okay? AT the next meeting.
Male Second.
Male [unintelligible].
Criswell You saying at the next meeting?
Graafstra It's just a discussion item on tonight's agenda.
[simultaneous comments]
McPherson Bruce?
Champeaux Aye.
McPherson Dusty?
Boucher Aye.
Raney Aye.
McPherson Tell them to come back in?
COUNCIL RETREAT
Set for full day for Friday, February 3rd offsite, and half-day on February 4th in the community center.
Committee assignment change
Mark Raney and Jeff Everett are switching places, with Jeff on Community Development committee and Mark on Public Safety.
RECORDING OF PUBLIC MEETINGS
Rowe I haven't read all this, what Thom gave us here, his recommendations what we do, but I discussed it with him a little bit. And what he recommended and it sounds good to me is if we have a news media…. ?
Graafstra Well, in the courthouse they characterize it as a media feed and location. So we hard-wire in a speaker that picks up all the sound system, and brings the -- what's going on in our proceedings to a location that we designate and that all the recording equipment be placed around the speaker that has been provided to provide that, that audio feed. That's what they do in a courthouse when there are trials. They set up a recording. They set up a media feed system, and then they actually bring it outside the courtroom, just outside the courtroom. And you go there, you'll see all the reporters and all the tape recorders sitting on a table as the speaker is functioning. So it's our, our practical recommendation is to, to spend a little bit of money on some technology, and establish essentially a media feed. And that all the recording equipment can be placed around the speaker that's producing all of the sound of the proceedings in the council meeting. So that's our practical recommendation.
Criswell Sounds good to me.
Graafstra Whether that be at a location at the back of this room or we set a speaker on the wall just outside the council doors here and there's a table just outside the door, and the recording equipment's all set out there, that's something for you guys to discuss. If that's not the direction you want to go, then our report to the council and the mayor had other recommendations as to some of the things you might want to consider for ground rules and private recording. That could be either video or audio, of open meetings of the city council.
Rowe Any discussion on that?
Raney It sounds like we're going to have to come up with two solutions. One with short-term, until we can get the technology in place, and then the long-term one.
Rowe I wonder what it would take to discuss this media--speaker like he's talking -- what money?
Male Money.
Rowe Yeah, but how much money? We could run a wire from here to over to a speaker couldn't be very much.
Male I don't think it's too much money.
McPherson As long as you have speakers from the table here that will, you know, for feed.
Voices [unintelligible].
Rowe If that's what we choose to do tonight, then I would say we should talk to our fellow who's putting in our speaker system, and see if he can get that done right away and see what it's gonna cost.
Raney It doesn't even have to be hard-wired in. It can be RF'd [radio frequency].
Male Yeah
Male Right.
Raney So it could be movable. You wouldn't…
Rowe As long as it works.
Criswell Yeah. As long as we're discussing it, I don't have a problem with people recording if they want to record. I mean, that's money out of their pocket, as far as I'm concerned. But, um, I, I do -- and I am offended when they make a mockery out of the room on account of it. Now I, the little mic here, it, it doesn't bo--bother me. What bothers me about it right now is it's up so high and it's so obvious. It could've been down low and I wouldn't have had a problem with it. But I really don't have a problem with people recording.
Rowe Let me ask a question here. Until we get this wired in, if that's what we opt to do, Ray, I guess I'm asking you, can you drop this down and still record off of it, or -- ?
Ray Probably. But I would like to make a comment. It was totally unobtrusive before you offended --- before you objected to it.
Ed Boucher He's not the only one that objected to it. We had [unintelligible].
[simultaneous comments]
Rowe [banging his gavel] Okay. Gentleman --
Male [unintelligible] as important as you.
Rowe Okay, well, we're going to do something with it. I, I guess, I was just asking if you could drop it down until we reach the -- or get the better system wired in and --
Ray Assuming, assuming that it gives a good recording, I will do so.
Rowe [simultaneously] we'd appreciate it. I didn't hear that.
Ray That's the problem. I said assuming it gets a good recording, I will do so. Otherwise --
Rowe [interrupting] Well, that's what I'm asking. If you could - if it would work, if you just dropped it down a little lower.
Ray [simultaneously] I don't know. I'll try.
Rowe Okay. So we'll have Darnell [Laura Koenig's husband] take a look at that then and see what it's going to cost us to do it and maybe getting [unintelligible] if it's not [unintelligible].
Raney Could we, uh, actually make the, make the directions a little bit more specific? In that any recording devices be, have a reasonable chance of being functional? As well as unobtrusive and not in the line of sight? And that would -- would people speaking there wouldn't be looking through anything to see you or the council? That they'd be below, eye-level?
Rowe I would very much agree with that. And I will say that you, you're the council. You can do whatever you'd like to do.
Male So in the interim until we get a media center, uh…
Criswell I would like to at least see it lowered down.
Rowe If this, if this would work, if Ray can lower it down and get it to work until we get our news media speaker set up, I think it -- but the way it is now, I notice people come up here tonight, they, I see 'em dodging around this --
Criswell That's all they're doing is looking at that.
Rowe Yeah.
Criswell That's all [unintelligible].
Raney But, but, but I, I do think that we need to stick with the attorney's recommendation that for, um, purposes of other issues that nothing be affixed to city property. And that it be free-standing or held. And so, and, and not be obtrusive. And that's a fairly subjective thing so we have to make it objective and not in the line of sight, I think is the way to make that.
Rowe I would agree with that. Sounds good to me.
Boucher How soon you going to see the gentleman regarding --
Rowe How soon will we -- how soon will you see him?
Criswell She sees him every night.
[simultaneous comments]
Rowe Laura will tell him what we need done.
[unintelligible comments]
Ed Boucher (again) Is there any chance of the, for the larger equipment of making the speaker area more spacious? In other words, outside of the room? Out there like you were talking about?
Rowe Uh..
Ed Boucher For the bigger stuff, or -- ?
Rowe We'll -- I, we'll talk to Darnell if that's a major problem to wire it in. It's, it's -- that area out there is suited. There's lot of room, I guess.
Male This way [unintelligible] nice. And if there's a huge crowd, there would be a speaker out there for them to hear what's going on, too.
Ed Boucher And not take up the room in here [unintelligible] --
Rowe You know we -- as you mention that, we had discussed that at one time of having extra speakers for that and even [simultaneous comments] speakers out under the overhang out there for like Shindig. You could have your --
Ed Boucher I don't think that, uh, us recording people should be made to stand out in the cold.
Rowe No, no! [laughter] Our eventual plan on [unintelligible] is to have speakers outside. Not, not to make the people doing the recording stand out in the cold. No, that's not, not the plan.
Koenig For the dedication, Kenton and Darnell did install speakers, not only in the entryway, but also out on the, underneath the veranda outside. So that people standing out there could hear it. It worked quite well.
Rowe That way, we got a big crowd, you've got a speaker out there where people could hear something. Okay.
Raney Actually, it might make sense to put them at both places. Because there's no order in the hallway, and ambient noise could obscure recordings. And so I think that -- yes, it's a good idea for to have it out there for people who want to be out there and listen to things in the room, but I do think we're going to need to have an area for people to record inside the meeting room. That way they can secure their equipment, keep an eye on it, as well as the order that's in place here and the quiet.
Criswell I think you're right.
McPherson I guess there should be one in the back and one outside here.
Rowe Well, let's talk to Darnell and get a dollar figure and we'll go from there.
McPherson Well, don't we have a press table back there [unintelligible]?
Rowe Well, there used to be one.
Storm I'm sorry. I just [unintelligible], I have one question. If we're going to be going to the feed, this is assuming that everyone is mic'd, is that correct?
Rowe Um-m-m…
Male Yes.
Rowe That's what we're working toward.
Storm Okay. Just wanted to clarify that, because what we have now is not really good for recording.
Rowe Okay. Can--can you hear mine okay?
Storm We can hear it with our mic from here, but … the only other microphones are the one here and, and you. You come across okay. But I mean, everybody else is very difficult to hear.
Rowe 'Cause what we have is each one like I've got.
Storm That would -- That's great.
Rowe In other words we -- I think. We're going to have everybody --
Koenig We, we have those for everyone. And Darnell worked on it tonight, setting them up. He's had some medical problems that's made it difficult for him to get back in here to do it.
Ed Boucher I think she's right. That it is hard for them to get that, because it's hardly ever right.
COMP PLAN DOCKETING PROCESS
Everett Yeah, I just have some questions on our comprehensive docketing procedure. Um, currently, uh, we don't have one. And, and seeing as we're in the midst of updating our comprehensive plan, and, uh…we really need to have one. I believe that is in work. I was hoping to get some, get an update on that.
Porter Rick? Is this true? We, we don't have a procedure?
Cisar The procedure that the council discussed with the planning commission. And I did meet, have been meeting with the planning commission over the last several weeks and we have developed a procedure -- you have a draft of that. We will be going to a public hearing before the commission in two weeks. The council will probably see it in another month and a half. [unintelligible] to be incorporated in with the comp plan.
Rowe So we do have a procedure for it?
Cisar We have a procedure in process. That's what I'm saying.
Everett Okay. But we are going to do the docketing procedure first, and then do the rest of our comp plan procedure --
Cisar [unintelligible] docketing will come first. That'll probably be approved by the council [unintelligible].
Everett That was, that was the key issue there. Um…and the other, the other question I had was maybe some clarification on the public hearing aspect of it. The way I'm interpreting the code is that the council is supposed to do the public hearings on the amendments to our UDC. And that our planning agency is scheduling and holding the public hearing. Where, where --
Cisar I look at two public hearings, uh, to go back with 17.24 and the way we should be processing amendments.
Male Which -- which --
Cisar 17.24 and 15 -- [unintelligible] 17.24.
Everett Okay.
Cisar I'll have to look at it -- I guess we have the public hearing before the planning commission.
Everett Okay.
Cisar They forward a recommendation to city council, and the council look at an ordinance which is another public hearing. So in fact we have two public hearings.
Everett We do have two public hearings. Okay.
Cisar That's the [unintelligible].
Everett Okay.
NOTE: Mr. Wendall Smith volunteered $100 toward the economic development proposal made by the EDC. If anyone else wishes to donate to this effort, they should probably start with contacting Donna Murphy at the city (360-793-2231).
[no public comments]